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Easy Jet : Safety Culture : Using sickness absence to select for redundancy

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Easy Jet : Safety Culture : Using sickness absence to select for redundancy

Old 30th Jul 2020, 12:41
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Out of curiosity, if you're tired or otherwise unfit, don't you still have to meet at work, and then the employer can find something else for you to do?

I mean, he is paying you, and you're not sick.... you could still wash cars or something like that.... and it's a good pay for washing cars, and way better than pushing paper when tired.
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 13:42
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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I don't know why I'm bothering to respond, but the idea is that if you're fatigued or unfit to the point where it's unsafe for you to operate, you remove yourself from the roster to give yourself sufficient time to rest and recover prior to your next flight duty period, so that you can operate safely again. That shouldn't be too difficult to understand, but given your utterly moronic post, I'm not sure.
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 13:54
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Jmmoric,

Good point, but one that is often misunderstood. In this line of work “fatigue” can be something that is particularly damaging to the safety of the operation and the individual crew member. The job often involves eccentric sleep cycles. By that, I mean cycles that can not only be disruptive in themselves, but also don’t follow a pattern. On top of just circadian disruption, there are all the usual life disrupters that can exacerbate the onset of fatigue. The individual then has to decide when the time is right to activate the circuit breaker and reset their work pattern so that things can proceed in a much safer manner.

in my experience, most people are very reluctant to display external perceived signs of weakness or feel that they are letting the side down. In reality, for most people, by the time they invoke fatigue, it is probably significantly overdue.

So no, you don’t have to report for work, since that would fail to provide the necessary reset. What you need is a short term break in order to arrange the requisite reset of your own work/rest cycle. It’s also important to distinguish tiredness from fatigue. Tiredness is a normal part of reaching the end of an energy cycle. Fatigue (although it often does) can be just the opposite. It can involve a cocktail of factors and can occur when you are in fact quite apparently alert. In itself, fatigue isn’t a scale of tiredness (although it is very often used in that context,) it is an accumulation of physical and mental attributes that are in danger of causing an imminent breakdown of the individuals safe, efficient and healthy functioning.
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 15:27
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Nice post. Sleep scientists like to use the word sleppyness for tiredness e.g. the need to sleep. And they also say crews don't adapt to their rosters they 'manage' them. This is because every flight/early/late/night is different whereas a person on fixed times e.g. shift worker know's whats coming.
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 11:01
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Originally Posted by cessnapete
BA pilot management announced some time ago that sickness records would be part of their CR criteria.
The trouble used to be that it was impossible to to get compassionate days off. And if you made a request that was turned down (as they all were), you had openly declared your hand - and could not take that day off. So the inly way ti get a compassionate day off, was to go sick.

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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 10:13
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Any thoughts on a 2nd wave meaning airlines have a rethink and actually make more redundancys?
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 19:14
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A second wave with complete lockdowns and long travel restrictions will finish aviation off for good. Even now there is a question which airlines can survive, even those considered very healthy before the crisis are in doubt, including easyjet to come back to the topic of this thread.
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 22:28
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I think it is obvious the g'mnt has latched on to this crisis to drive an agenda. Aviation is an obstacle and that is all.
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 23:13
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Denti

Aviation as we have grown to enjoy , cheap fares, everyone can fly (including the great unwashed) , lots of scheduled departures daily / hourly etc etc etc. Perhaps we will now seen a return to survivability of some rather than rack and ruin / failure for some or caused by heavy discounters, in other words some stability in the industry.
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Old 2nd Aug 2020, 23:15
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Denti

Aviation as we have grown to enjoy , cheap fares, everyone can fly (including the great unwashed) , lots of scheduled departures daily / hourly etc etc etc. Perhaps we will now seen a return to survivability of some rather than rack and ruin / failure for some heavy discounters or caused by ULC, in other words some stability in the industry.
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Old 3rd Aug 2020, 08:56
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jmmoric

It's being fatigued not just tired

If you are fatigued to the point of not being safe to fly, you should not drive a car either, so getting to work could be tricky for most.
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Old 4th Aug 2020, 15:05
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guy_incognito

No need to be rude, fatigue and sleep management is a factor in ATC as well, so I'm very well aware of it.... and even I've put in that call. (Even told my friends that the flight we arranged had to be postponed.... cause I was tired).
The question was a "devils advocate".... but I think I'm sticking my hand into a bee-hive here.

GDAJB

Agreed.

Uplinker

Agreed, but you'd still not fly if you were tired to an extend a cup of coffee couldn't solve it, so "tired" is also an valid excuse. But I bet you most people have no quarrels if they are on their way home, jumping into a car and driving while tired, though they shouldn't.
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Old 4th Aug 2020, 15:47
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Some sleepy scientists who have done studies on crew will state the drive home is the biggest risk for aircrew
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Old 15th Sep 2020, 14:54
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Before you give up half your pay & all your conditions this week , is it worth asking why some are sacrificing so much yet others nothing ? Have you been sold out by Smeagol ?
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Old 15th Sep 2020, 17:25
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You can ask but will it help anyone that are in this position. This virus hasn't yet completed its death rattle.
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Old 15th Sep 2020, 20:00
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From ICAO
Fatigue is defined as a physiological state of reduced mental or physical performance capability resulting from sleep loss or extended wakefulness, circadian phase, or workload (mental and/or physical activity) that can impair a crew member’s alertness and ability
to safely operate an aircraft or perform safety-related duties.

For all the tired vs fatigued people, the above definition from ICAO Fatigue Management Documents would suggest that if alertness is reduced for any of those reasons you are “Fatigued”.
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 05:40
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The tired v fatigued discussion is what bought it on. Didn't get good sleep as disrupted worked a few lates etc = sleepyness. Had a new baby weeks / months of poor sleep = fatigued.
The good thing is folk are much more educated now on the fatigue subject.
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