40% of Pakistani pilots hold fake flying licenses: Aviation Minister
de minimus non curat lex
The licences were issued by the competent Authority / Regulator.
However, the means by which they were obtained were by a process not in strict accordance with the Air Navigation Order and other regulations,
as deception and / or fraud is alleged to have occurred
pursuant to the issue thereof.
In other words, they were “at it” in simple parlance.
However, the means by which they were obtained were by a process not in strict accordance with the Air Navigation Order and other regulations,
as deception and / or fraud is alleged to have occurred
pursuant to the issue thereof.
In other words, they were “at it” in simple parlance.
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There's this gem too...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_M..._investigation
This is at the heart of the problem. You cannot blame only briber, the bribee is actually far more responsible and the system that supports the bribee bears the final responsibility.
If you are trapped in a system where a bribe is needed to get any service, then you really have little choice and you soon loose sight of what is 'right' or 'wrong'. If you believe that no matter how hard you study, you need to slip someone a bit of cash to 'facilitate' your ATPL, then it's a very short step to not having to study quite so hard and slipping a few more dollars to cover any small slip-up. In a strange way, the individuals with 'fake' documentation are also victims of a ******-up system.
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Well said double_barrel. The system conditions people into thinking and behaving in a certain way which is why publishing names of individuals is just a cheap and nasty trick to detract from the real problem of corrupt institutions.
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CW247: "corrupt institutions". Indeed.
isn't it ironic that the main international organization responsible for setting standards for civil aviation globally, has such a slight, or even non-existent, profile for holding the component institutions which constitute each Member State's civilian aviation sector to any standards for integrity, reliability, and positive approach to adapting to new, improved technological capacities? Just picture trying to implement and integrate a new state-of-the-art exam monitoring system and i.d. verification procedure on top of layers of "baksheesh".
If the results weren't so often tragic and senseless disasters, it would be comical. Until the projected traffic doubling over like the next 20 years (or some version of that) occurs and then a lot more things will be bumping into stuff when they should not.
isn't it ironic that the main international organization responsible for setting standards for civil aviation globally, has such a slight, or even non-existent, profile for holding the component institutions which constitute each Member State's civilian aviation sector to any standards for integrity, reliability, and positive approach to adapting to new, improved technological capacities? Just picture trying to implement and integrate a new state-of-the-art exam monitoring system and i.d. verification procedure on top of layers of "baksheesh".
If the results weren't so often tragic and senseless disasters, it would be comical. Until the projected traffic doubling over like the next 20 years (or some version of that) occurs and then a lot more things will be bumping into stuff when they should not.
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https://www.dawn.com/news/1566153/pi...for-six-months
The European Union Air Safety Agency (EASA) has suspended the authorisation for the Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) to operate in Europe for six months
, the airline's spokesman said on Tuesday.
The European Union Air Safety Agency (EASA) has suspended the authorisation for the Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) to operate in Europe for six months
, the airline's spokesman said on Tuesday.
My goodness , 6 whole months ! Hardly very punitive as PIA were barely flying internationally anyway.
The point is, there are numerous pilots and practitioners of many so called professions from this region working world wide. All bona fides need to be checked ... is that even possible ? I am not confident that it is .
The point is, there are numerous pilots and practitioners of many so called professions from this region working world wide. All bona fides need to be checked ... is that even possible ? I am not confident that it is .
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Interesting defence here by a PIA FO saying the charge against him is that he has not sat one of the exams that allow him to become a Captain not an FO!
https://liveandletsfly.com/pia-fake-pilot/
https://liveandletsfly.com/pia-fake-pilot/
de minimus non curat lex
Unlike EASA, you appear to be able to sit ONE ATPL paper (old Nav block?) at a time for CPL/IR holders.
And again like old UK CAA rules, no requirement to be a (f)ATPL for RHS >5700kgs.
I think that changed mid 1990s?
If I recall correctly, under UK CAA CAP54/509 [pre JAR/EASA] last century, you had three attempts to successfully complete the block.
And again like old UK CAA rules, no requirement to be a (f)ATPL for RHS >5700kgs.
I think that changed mid 1990s?
If I recall correctly, under UK CAA CAP54/509 [pre JAR/EASA] last century, you had three attempts to successfully complete the block.
Only half a speed-brake
CW247 Thanks for bringing it up. First good news, anyone serious about aviation is eagerly waiting for more.
https://liveandletsfly.com/pia-fake-pilot/
https://liveandletsfly.com/pia-fake-pilot/
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I had a buddy who flew in India for Ran Air on a King Air. He had an FO that was a relatively junior pilot. This individual had an IR, but had only flown into 2 airports. Neither had an ILS.
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So to summarise at this time. The idiot Civil Aviation Minister has dragged the names of potentially 100 of those 260 "fake" pilots through the mud because of a misunderstanding/overzealousmess . In his attempt to highlight corruption, nepotism and more at PIA he has unfairly tarnished many reputations.
Regardless of race and culture, we owe it to our industry colleagues to look at the detail in fairness and objectivity. Here, all is not what it originally seemed.
Regardless of race and culture, we owe it to our industry colleagues to look at the detail in fairness and objectivity. Here, all is not what it originally seemed.
It also raises the question about the level of qualification of long haul pilots at PIA. If they are able to fly the 777 on a CPL without having previously passed the ATPL theory than they are definitely less qualified then I would have expected. It reminds me of the long term SAA first officer who was flying without having passed the exam and who was involved in the overspeed incident with the A340 over the alps.
de minimus non curat lex
I don’t quite see how not passing the ATPL exams would impact upon an over speed incident. Relevance?
Where this technical knowledge and understanding would be sourced would be during the type rating training?
Having done both the CPL and ATPL exams albeit last century as a self improver on the 700 hour route under CAP54, the ATPL met with world climatology was probably the only useful add on.
GRID navigation.....give me strength. At least no longer in the syllabus.
As one Sandy Thomson once described the majority of it ~ “high class rubbish”.
I think before JAR was formally adopted 1 July 1999, the UK changed their rules requiring (f)ATPL minimum to operate RHS >5700kgs. Those with CPL/IR were given grandfather rights, sine die, on their existing types only.
You need to learn relevant information, and not the academic nonsense I had to learn.
Apart from the technical side of the aircraft you fly which is critical and needs to be kept current,the initial groundschool for licence issue probably fades away to something close to PPL level, apart from those elements directly practical and necessary to do the day job.
A true story from PIK BAeFC days. An very experienced ex A2 QFI was undergoing FIC approval conducted by the resident CAA examiner. The examiner eventually started to ask in-depth Qs on something unnecessary and irrelevant aspect of how let us say a ‘widget works’.
This fairly new inexperienced examiner was then interrupted by the ‘candidate’ who asked for the time.
The watch was looked at and the time given. The candidate then asked the examiner to explain actually how the watch worked.
The penny dropped as they say.........
Where this technical knowledge and understanding would be sourced would be during the type rating training?
Having done both the CPL and ATPL exams albeit last century as a self improver on the 700 hour route under CAP54, the ATPL met with world climatology was probably the only useful add on.
GRID navigation.....give me strength. At least no longer in the syllabus.
As one Sandy Thomson once described the majority of it ~ “high class rubbish”.
I think before JAR was formally adopted 1 July 1999, the UK changed their rules requiring (f)ATPL minimum to operate RHS >5700kgs. Those with CPL/IR were given grandfather rights, sine die, on their existing types only.
You need to learn relevant information, and not the academic nonsense I had to learn.
Apart from the technical side of the aircraft you fly which is critical and needs to be kept current,the initial groundschool for licence issue probably fades away to something close to PPL level, apart from those elements directly practical and necessary to do the day job.
A true story from PIK BAeFC days. An very experienced ex A2 QFI was undergoing FIC approval conducted by the resident CAA examiner. The examiner eventually started to ask in-depth Qs on something unnecessary and irrelevant aspect of how let us say a ‘widget works’.
This fairly new inexperienced examiner was then interrupted by the ‘candidate’ who asked for the time.
The watch was looked at and the time given. The candidate then asked the examiner to explain actually how the watch worked.
The penny dropped as they say.........
Last edited by parkfell; 2nd Jul 2020 at 15:01. Reason: (f)ATPL added
SAA introduced a requirement for their co-pilots to have an ATPL. The guy who was involved in the incident did not get one when they changed the rules, but had somehow fudged things to continue flying. At the very least this showed a lack of integrity and he immediately left when found out. I was merely surmising if there was any similarity with the situation in Pakistan or whether they really do just have lower requirements. What is not in any doubt is that the qualification and competency of Pakistani pilots is now very much under the spotlight. Whether we are talking fraudulent licences, Parker pen hours or lack of regulatory oversight remains to be seen. This is not something new and unexpected. You can google Lulsgate Cowboy for a colourful story from the past which if I remember correctly follows a similar theme.
Last edited by lederhosen; 2nd Jul 2020 at 11:21.
