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40% of Pakistani pilots hold fake flying licenses: Aviation Minister

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40% of Pakistani pilots hold fake flying licenses: Aviation Minister

Old 26th Jun 2020, 08:25
  #41 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
 
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I know of one ex employee of Airtours who faked his logbook for licence issue.
Allegedly 739 hours of “Parker Pen” flying. Eventually found out and ended up in Hove Crown Court in 2001.
9 months suspended & Ģ4000 costs.

CAA reset his “trip counter” to ZERO.

All previous hours and exams : NULL & VOID

The Daily Express raked it up again in 2008.

Last edited by parkfell; 26th Jun 2020 at 17:53.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 08:47
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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My "list" of airlines that I will not be a passenger on is well into double figures now. Be very careful where and with which airline you buy a seat. ICAO ought to be doing more as should national regulators. Some training departments in "certain" parts of the world need to be overhauled from top to bottom.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 09:03
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Tip of the iceberg

Is this just the start of the story. If the pilots have cheated there way to the front the rest of the organisations need to be looked at with some urgency. across the board. Do we also have a lot of ATC and engineers too. This is a human issue that needs solving, wherever and from whatever culture this comes from.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 09:18
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by parkfell View Post
The number one priority of any government is to protect its citizens.
If only that were so.
The number one priority of most governments is to retain government.
Some politicians, parties, and governments may convince themselves that they are doing the best to "protect their citizens", but there are always winners and losers and all politicians, parties, and governments vary in who they deem more deserving of winning or losing.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 09:38
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by esscee View Post
People in that region want "something without putting the effort in" to achieve it. Be interesting if they go checking engineer exams/licences as well.
It has happened in the UK, so it can happen anywhere.

https://www.caa.co.uk/News/Aircraft-...ams/?catid=157
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 09:42
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Airbubba View Post
Fake FAA licenses are rare in my experience. However every U.S. airline seems to have tales from the training building of folks using the wrong 'gouge' for the systems test and all flunking a la Animal House. Or, a story of the guy who stole the test from an instructor's desk and then jammed the Xerox machine in the schoolhouse trying to copy it (hey, at least I went to Zappo's to make the copies ).

Here's a pilot test cheating scandal that made headlines three decades ago.



Former Tradewinds A300 pilot finally jailed for FAA fraud
I personally know of one person working on a fake A/P license. Around 5 or 6 of us were working for a well known US freight carrier in Europe (All Brits) we all held A/P licenses this particular individual was sent to Vienna to assess a tail strike and signed it of as within limits as chance would have it there were some feds at Vienna at the time and wanted to see the aircraft in question. Whenthey saw the damage it was found to be well out of limits and unsafe for any flight ferry or otherwise they then checked his license and this is when the fraud came to light turns out he was using the license number of someone long deceased with his name forged onto the A/P.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 10:00
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Will EASA and the FAA be issuing a ban in light of these revelations? If not is there a way we can pressure them to issue a ban? Perhaps a petition?

I operate to lots of airports where this airline can be found and I do NOT feel comfortable sharing airports and skies with these total crooks and incompetents about the place, I find it insulting (considering all we had to go through to get our seats) and worrying. Surely I am not alone?
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 10:04
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Danger

I once worked for an airline flying tuboprops. They were trying to get their junior F/O's hours up quickly to the minimum required to transition to the jet fleet. They expedited the process by putting an F/O in the jump seat and letting them log the hours
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 10:17
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JMock View Post
from current personal experience that it patently untrue
Doing the test in Cina ( 2008?) we all were tested by guys from Melbourne University, was quite thorough and many chinese pilots passed with level 4 some of them 5. Many older Captains did. not pass and could only fly domestic routes henceforth.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 10:18
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Airbubba View Post
You can look up FAA licenses (but not the logbooks) here: https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/
Apparently, PRIA isn't enough for the FAA ? So they now want this ?:

"Under the NPRM, air carriers, public aircraft operators, air tours, fractional providers, and corporate flight departments would be required to enter pilot data into the PRD and would also have access to data contained within the PRD."

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...raws-fire-nbaa

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Old 26th Jun 2020, 10:46
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
It has happened in the UK, so it can happen anywhere.

https://www.caa.co.uk/News/Aircraft-...ams/?catid=157
True, but itīs simply more prevalent in some cultures than others. I think itīs a mix. The self concept of people, especially men, in some places is exaggerated. And maybe more importantly, if you are in a place where corruption and nepotism are more accepted and overt, it is also a matter of negative selection - you simply discourage the good apples. You donīt have to go that far to find this, I have Greek friends who migrated because they felt that they did their best and actually put in the effort, but enough lazy idiots with the right uncles or Dads will get hired before them. Itīs not that hard to create a society where people feel that NOT using the extra help of cheating would be dumb. If ROI is low and uncertain, many will try to keep I as low as possible too. The opposite is hard, itīs hard to create institutions keeping such things at bay, and to get people to actually accept them (not just fear them). Itīs kind of the whole point of a (not just economically developed society.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 10:54
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by zukini View Post
Do we also have a lot of ATC and engineers too. This is a human issue that needs solving, wherever and from whatever culture this comes from.
Concerning the engineers I would say yes.
I've lost count of the amount of CVs that have appeared in my inbox over the years from that part of the world with qualifications and experience that are just not possible for the age of the applicant, well I guess it would be possible if they started their career at 10 years old !
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 10:55
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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There have been a number of unqualified Drs in UK over the years working in medicine. Loopholes closed these days one would hope. They act the part and get away with it. Some have been actors. There are no incidents of Drs pretending to be actors as far as I am aware
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 11:02
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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I am intrigued to know how pilots with fake licences and fictitious flying hours pass the airline's acceptance checks and demanding simulator scenarios? Does the corruption extend to the airline's training and examination staff?
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 11:26
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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About five years ago I heard from a very good source that the UK CAA had hired an ex-Scotland Yard detective to investigate fraudulent engineer experience worksheets.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 11:29
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by parkfell View Post
The number one priority of any government is to protect its citizens.

The simple question crews must ask themselves ~ can the airline afford a HULL LOSS.
We all depend upon each other for continuing employment.
And the number one priority of any crew should be to get the lives entrusted to their skilled hands safely from point A to point B. I would hope that would be the question crews would ask themselves rather than can their employer afford a Hull Loss. And, it's the paying public that you really depend upon for continuing employment.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 11:30
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Unfortunately, similar things can happen in the UK. The pilot of this Vanguard belonging to Invicta Airlines that crashed at Basle in April 1973 had failed his IR at least nine times before gaining a Nigerian licence. One wonders what standards were applied during his recruitment and further training.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invict...nes_Flight_435
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 12:26
  #58 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
 
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Originally Posted by b1lanc View Post
And the number one priority of any crew should be to get the lives entrusted to their skilled hands safely from point A to point B. I would hope that would be the question crews would ask themselves rather than can their employer afford a Hull Loss. And, it's the paying public that you really depend upon for continuing employment.
The trouble with ‘cherry picking’ extracts, without even indicating as such, is that it can give a misleading impression as to the whole message.
It goes without saying that the task of any crew is to safety transport the passengers. They will leave in their droves if they believe safety might be an issue.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 12:40
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Friends, this is a journey all cultures and countries have been through. Employment due to merit is a relatively new concept even in the Western world.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 14:03
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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I find one part of the original article most disturbing.

The fact that some of the accused are fighting the “Show Cause” in court.

Obviously, nothing to hide.

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