PIA A320 Crash Karachi
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There is some reason to question the validity of this video. The photos of the plane (showing the rat deployed) show the gear up. The video shows the gear down. The ATC transmission mentions a belly landing. This also implies a gear up configuration. Finally it appears to me that the shape of the buildings that the plane passes behind, are distorted by the plane's passage. This could be an artifact of the video compression. It would be interesting if someone could identify the building and surrounding area, then match that to the crash location.
At 750ft AGL you get a master warning "L/G GEAR NOT DOWN". That means you'll get a loud DING DING DING and red flashy lights. There is a large red downwards arrow next to the landing gear lever that lights up (if you're in the landing configuration minus the landing gear, eg flaps set for landing with the gear up). If you ignore that, eventually you get a "TOO LOW GEAR" GPWS callout (400ft maybe? Can't remember), when that shouts you get a GPWS light in front of you.
Edit: That's weird, I wasn't intending to reply to jugopropwash, thought it was BrooksPA28 asking about warnings for the gear not being down. Perhaps the post was deleted.
Edit: That's weird, I wasn't intending to reply to jugopropwash, thought it was BrooksPA28 asking about warnings for the gear not being down. Perhaps the post was deleted.
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They would not be the first to get so involved with the landing that they screwed the pooch. See Capt. Asoh's noble defense. If they had a double podstrike plus maybe a tailstrike, why didn't they say anything afterwards? Well, maybe it's not so bad and they won't get in trouble. Why cause problems for yourselves?
Thus why a just culture is hard to attain. Even when policies in place, you still get judged on insufficient st
evidence.
Thus why a just culture is hard to attain. Even when policies in place, you still get judged on insufficient st
evidence.
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So you can retract the gear with weight on and movement, live on a runway during a TOGA before lift off to allow engine nacelles to scrape the ground? Im not sure I get that.
Or is the suggestion there was positive climb, gear up then a sink back down temporarily to scuff engines before gaining momentum
Or is the suggestion there was positive climb, gear up then a sink back down temporarily to scuff engines before gaining momentum
Never underestimate the ability of the human mind to filter out certain sounds - especially during high stress/high workload situations (perhaps worrying about another, unrelated, issue).
Allegedly (according to one of my college profs) many years ago a biz jet did a wheels up landing at Boeing Field. The flight crew swore up and down that the landing config warning never sounded - until the investigators played them the CVR recording where the warning was clearly evident during final...
Allegedly (according to one of my college profs) many years ago a biz jet did a wheels up landing at Boeing Field. The flight crew swore up and down that the landing config warning never sounded - until the investigators played them the CVR recording where the warning was clearly evident during final...
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Chapter 10, section 10.3 It was conclusively established that neither the Captain, nor the FO, were fasting during or 12 hours before the flight
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There was a gear unsafe warning going off during R/T between the plane & ATC. Seems they tried to land gear up, scrapped the pods on the Rwy then went around, the rest is obvious as to what happened next.
“Possible” scenario, (as the Swiss cheese has happened before in a 320)
Aircraft is doing the slam dunk, trying to get down, Gear out, Flaps out-maybe not at Conf Full, or 3 because of the rushed approach, have realised well and truly unstable, called Go Around, in the heat of the moment, the PF has pushed the Thrust into MCT instead of TOGA. There is the increase in thrust and sound of the engines, and because of the repetition in Sim sessions, the PNF has called positive climb, even though they weren’t, due to the ‘go around mouth music’.... PF has then called for gear up. Gear is selected up, but the aircraft is still sinking towards the runway, with speed increasing.....and ‘maybe’... both engines have contacted the runway? They’ve realised, gone to TOGA and flown away. Then with some damage ECAM is lighting up with stuff, Rat is extended.
Aircraft is doing the slam dunk, trying to get down, Gear out, Flaps out-maybe not at Conf Full, or 3 because of the rushed approach, have realised well and truly unstable, called Go Around, in the heat of the moment, the PF has pushed the Thrust into MCT instead of TOGA. There is the increase in thrust and sound of the engines, and because of the repetition in Sim sessions, the PNF has called positive climb, even though they weren’t, due to the ‘go around mouth music’.... PF has then called for gear up. Gear is selected up, but the aircraft is still sinking towards the runway, with speed increasing.....and ‘maybe’... both engines have contacted the runway? They’ve realised, gone to TOGA and flown away. Then with some damage ECAM is lighting up with stuff, Rat is extended.
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Nup, they where with Twr well into the App/Ldg so unlikely to be anything other than gear not down. To land a modern day jet like the Airbus gear still up is almost unimaginable but they tried by the looks of things!
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“Possible” scenario, (as the Swiss cheese has happened before in a 320)
Aircraft is doing the slam dunk, trying to get down, Gear out, Flaps out-maybe not at Conf Full, or 3 because of the rushed approach, have realised well and truly unstable, called Go Around, in the heat of the moment, the PF has pushed the Thrust into MCT instead of TOGA. There is the increase in thrust and sound of the engines, and because of the repetition in Sim sessions, the PNF has called positive climb, even though they weren’t, due to the ‘go around mouth music’.... PF has then called for gear up. Gear is selected up, but the aircraft is still sinking towards the runway, with speed increasing.....and ‘maybe’... both engines have contacted the runway? They’ve realised, gone to TOGA and flown away. Then with some damage ECAM is lighting up with stuff, Rat is extended.
Aircraft is doing the slam dunk, trying to get down, Gear out, Flaps out-maybe not at Conf Full, or 3 because of the rushed approach, have realised well and truly unstable, called Go Around, in the heat of the moment, the PF has pushed the Thrust into MCT instead of TOGA. There is the increase in thrust and sound of the engines, and because of the repetition in Sim sessions, the PNF has called positive climb, even though they weren’t, due to the ‘go around mouth music’.... PF has then called for gear up. Gear is selected up, but the aircraft is still sinking towards the runway, with speed increasing.....and ‘maybe’... both engines have contacted the runway? They’ve realised, gone to TOGA and flown away. Then with some damage ECAM is lighting up with stuff, Rat is extended.
According to FlightAware records, the aircraft (AP-BLD) hadn’t flown in the last 60 days.
Was the aircraft parked and stored in accordance with the AMM/MP?
https://safetyfirst.airbus.com/aircr...g-and-storage/
Was the aircraft parked and stored in accordance with the AMM/MP?
https://safetyfirst.airbus.com/aircr...g-and-storage/
It would really surprise me if this really happened, because it is (or should) be well known to Airbus pilots that SRS and Go-Around mode do not activate if the thrust levers are not advanced in the TOGA detent. If for any reason the thrust levers are not properly set, the PF would notice immediately that something is wrong on the FMA, because he would still see the normal modes that guide the aircraft in the landing phase.
A plausible scenario I can think of is:
PF “Go Around Flap”
PF moves THRLVR up one click.
PM “positive climb” (momentary, not sustained)
PF “gear up”
PM selects gear up.
No FMA Readout.
AC not in TOGA and keeps descending. Realised when still descending - just before pods hit. Selects TOGA.
It caught out an Australian airline some years ago, although without the ground contact.
EDIT - was distracted and took ages composing and have just seen others have same conclusion.
EDIT 2 - Have just heard audio of landing clearance read back with Continuous Repetitive Chime going off. It wasn't going off at the clearance for the approach. Whatever happened occurred between the two. Maybe there was gear problem that forced the go around.
PF “Go Around Flap”
PF moves THRLVR up one click.
PM “positive climb” (momentary, not sustained)
PF “gear up”
PM selects gear up.
No FMA Readout.
AC not in TOGA and keeps descending. Realised when still descending - just before pods hit. Selects TOGA.
It caught out an Australian airline some years ago, although without the ground contact.
EDIT - was distracted and took ages composing and have just seen others have same conclusion.
EDIT 2 - Have just heard audio of landing clearance read back with Continuous Repetitive Chime going off. It wasn't going off at the clearance for the approach. Whatever happened occurred between the two. Maybe there was gear problem that forced the go around.
Last edited by compressor stall; 23rd May 2020 at 00:56.
If for any reason the thrust levers are not properly set, the PF would notice immediately that something is wrong on the FMA, because he would still see the normal modes that guide the aircraft in the landing phase.
https://australianaviation.com.au/20...around-mishap/
If they were at 3500' and 5nm, based on normal approach speeds they were around 2 minutes from touchdown and would have needed a descent rate of around 1700 fpm which is double what would normally be expected and well outside stabilised criteria. The gymnastics involved in trying to salvage the situation would suggest that the aircraft would have been hand flown at the time. Clearly, a safe landing wasn't possible but the go-around might have only been initiated after a prolonged float down the runway, it would be interesting to see how far along the pavement ground contact occurred. An early gear retraction before confirming "positive climb" and possible non engagement of TOGA when go-around was initiated look increasing likely.
