Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

PIA A320 Crash Karachi

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

PIA A320 Crash Karachi

Old 24th Jun 2020, 12:55
  #1301 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 3,290
Originally Posted by markfelt View Post

I truly hope a full CVR transcript is published.
Seriously doubt that will happen. Just excerpts in the final report.
aterpster is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 12:56
  #1302 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 1,751
Originally Posted by compressor stall View Post
Intersting moderation.

My post pulled outlining the status of the gear from the report.
  • Down when high (~7000')
  • UP on GP intercept
  • Down in the Go Around
  • Up again shortly after.

The report makes clear reference to incorrect CRM procedures.


Did I go wrong postulating that an overbearing Captain possibly barked "gear" and a meek FO just moved the handle any way it would go?
Interesting theory. I guess we’ll have to wait for the CVR.

This report doesn’t state who was the pilot flying. Although, I’d argue that nobody was flying that day.
Check Airman is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 12:59
  #1303 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Korea
Posts: 99
Originally Posted by 212man View Post
The report explicitly states the recording stopped, per design.
To be clear, it states that for the FDR, whereas it explicitly states that the CVR covered the entire flight.
Euclideanplane is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 13:08
  #1304 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: France
Age: 66
Posts: 114
Thanks - I'd missed that sentence about the CVR, Para 19:

19.The CVR recording was found to be of good quality and covered complete flight. However, FDR included the data of the entire flight except after the time when electric power was not available for the FDR. This is as per its designed limitation.

So I guess Airbus and PIA had ?retro?-fitted the 2108 recommended independent, 10 minute-after-main-power-failure battery pack, which I believe had been preferred to RAT-derived power.
Gary Brown is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 13:53
  #1305 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: what U.S. calls ´old Europe´
Posts: 937
Just to get all pieces of the puzzle together...
Does anybody have experience how strict Pakistan ATC is about the maximum speed of 250kt below FL100 ?
I know it is the rule almost everywhere, but I also know that in several countries this is systematically violated...
A slightly higher speed in the beginning (Vmo is 356 kt?) may have helped to reduce altitude faster and intercept the glide much earlier, giving more time to sort out the mess they created and to stabilize the approach.
Volume is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 13:54
  #1306 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Within AM radio broadcast range of downtown Chicago
Age: 68
Posts: 274
CVR

Are there prior instances of an AAIB releasing an entire CVR transcript in the interests of safety improvements, for example to have as near a complete record of activities by the pilots as possible? - given the severe degree of deviations from SOP by the crew in this accident?
WillowRun 6-3 is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 14:16
  #1307 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Way north
Age: 43
Posts: 343
Originally Posted by Volume View Post
Does anybody have experience how strict Pakistan ATC is about the maximum speed of 250kt below FL100 ?
If I read the AIP correct, it's class C airspace, and there's no speed restriction in class C airspace. Reading a little more, it may seem as class B?
jmmoric is online now  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 14:25
  #1308 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Romford Essex
Posts: 37
Originally Posted by andrasz View Post
The images of the aircraft scraping the ground look very much like some photoshop job, were they genuine I would have expected them to surface weeks ago. Same goes for any unsourced statements on that forum.
https://historyofpia.com/forums/view...8780&start=585

The majority of the information on this forum seems to be fairly accurate, although some of the posters should be regarded with scepticism.

Last edited by kit344; 24th Jun 2020 at 14:42.
kit344 is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 14:34
  #1309 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Korea
Posts: 99
Originally Posted by Gary Brown View Post
No idea why the cabin crew are mentioned.....
Intriguing indeed. Apparently Khan had listened to the voice recordings, and was able to draw his own conclusions based on that, while not adhering much to the actual contents of the report.

(1) CC should have promptly informed the flight crew of the scrape, but didn't.

As if they would not have figured it out themselves when observing the position of the L/G lever. So more likely perhaps:

(2) The flight crew were eagerly discussing covid-19 not only among themselves, but possibly also including visitors to the flight cabin during critical phases of flight.

Euclideanplane is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 14:40
  #1310 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Malvern, UK
Posts: 404
Originally Posted by WillowRun 6-3 View Post
Are there prior instances of an AAIB releasing an entire CVR transcript in the interests of safety improvements, for example to have as near a complete record of activities by the pilots as possible? - given the severe degree of deviations from SOP by the crew in this accident?
I suspect there will be little new to be learned from the CVR after the commencement of the approach. If there are any clues at all they will be in the preceding portion - from the departure briefing onward.
Dont Hang Up is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 14:41
  #1311 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: on the ground
Posts: 301
Your link appears to be broken. Is this where it was supposed to go to?
https://historyofpia.com/forums/view...199464#p199464
nonsense is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 14:41
  #1312 (permalink)  

Only half a speed-brake
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Commuting home
Age: 42
Posts: 2,960
Originally Posted by compressor stall View Post
Did I go wrong postulating that an overbearing Captain possibly barked "gear" and a meek FO just moved the handle any way it would go?
We'll learn eventually, but that is my guess as well.

If true, it's a coarse play by Providence. The only thing that intersected that crew's universe with the world of normal piloting, is to call L/G down at 5 NM and they did. One of them moved the handle in the opposite direction and with that the one and only normal SOP call blew a hole below the waterline. Probably the F/O having had his brain squeezed out.

Sidenote: remarks had been made here that perhaps they saw the G/S upper false lobe, luring them to think the situation was manageable initially. If so, the confusion would double as that false G/S has an opposite polarity, i.e. the flight directors would be showing rubbish.
FlightDetent is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 14:44
  #1313 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Romford Essex
Posts: 37
https://historyofpia.com/forums/view...199464#p199464
kit344 is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 14:51
  #1314 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Romford Essex
Posts: 37
Originally Posted by nonsense View Post
Your link appears to be broken. Is this where it was supposed to go to?
https://historyofpia.com/forums/view...199464#p199464
Thanks, I've edited the post.
I got a phone call while I was trying to compse it.
kit344 is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 15:01
  #1315 (permalink)  

Only half a speed-brake
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Commuting home
Age: 42
Posts: 2,960
I'd say the strongly formulated opinion of x_man over there is rather accurate.
FlightDetent is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 15:06
  #1316 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Europe
Posts: 12
Sequence of events

I won't continue trying to post. Content removed. Sorry & bye

Last edited by Ray_Y; 7th Jul 2020 at 17:28.
Ray_Y is online now  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 15:27
  #1317 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Sudbury, Suffolk
Posts: 179
The raising of the gear and stowing of the speedbrake comes shortly after the last 'offer' of an orbit by Approach Control - is there a possibility that one crew 'accepted' this and the other pressed on? How do you make sense of any of this?
Maninthebar is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 15:28
  #1318 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 365
(1) CC should have promptly informed the flight crew of the scrape, but didn't.
If you need 3 terrified girls at their crew stations to inform you about 'scrapping' the engine then maybe...
CodyBlade is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 16:17
  #1319 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: sunny troon
Posts: 1,189
When the Aviation Minister Mr Sarwar was briefing PM Imran ( a fantastic retired international cricketer) shortly after this tragic accident, he stated that 12 (TWELVE) crashes had occurred in our recent history.

There is psychologist as a member of the AAIB team. The human factors aspects, with the reported disregard for CRM etc will make interesting reading.
Hope they also consider the location of the VCR and whether the aerodrome controller should have used binoculars to check if the gear was down. Previous aspect raised by me earlier in this thread. My view as an ex ATCO is yes, especially as it was quiet.

Last edited by parkfell; 24th Jun 2020 at 16:50. Reason: Added ATC aspect
parkfell is online now  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 16:32
  #1320 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: US
Posts: 78
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
FDR trace from Preliminary Report:
Did they mistake the gear lever and the flap lever when the gear was selected UP?

The report mentions under 'The Way Forward':
(h) Assessment of preflight medical actions, and post-crash initial response by CAA, is also underway at AAIB.

I hope this includes a blood sugar analysis.

Interesting that the minister mentions the Cabin Crew. Was there a cabin crew member in the cockpit that 'needed to be impressed' by the Skygod? Or was the minister just talking without having the faintest clue what he was talking about?

Last edited by KingAir1978; 24th Jun 2020 at 21:56.
KingAir1978 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.