Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

PIA A320 Crash Karachi

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

PIA A320 Crash Karachi

Old 22nd May 2020, 17:30
  #81 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: scotland
Posts: 10
A journalist called Ovais Jafar has just posted on twitter an extract of the audio between ATC and the pilot. It appears they had problems with the landing gear and also lost both engines at the end. This is a longer extract than the earlier transcript and audio posted here. Sorry but I cannot post links here.
auldlassie is offline  
Old 22nd May 2020, 17:46
  #82 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,835
Originally Posted by auldlassie View Post
A journalist called Ovais Jafar has just posted on twitter an extract of the audio between ATC and the pilot.
The audio is very similar to the edited clip I posted above. It comes from the same LiveATC.net archive recording.
Airbubba is offline  
Old 22nd May 2020, 17:46
  #83 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: london
Posts: 62
Also the intake nacelles of both engines look very much intact. Can engine scraping of this degree cause loss of oil ? Are there critical components towards the belly of the engines that are susceptible to scraping damage? Thank you.


freshgasflow is offline  
Old 22nd May 2020, 17:49
  #84 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 1,230
Originally Posted by skadi View Post
Landing gear clearly down in that clip.
GeeRam is offline  
Old 22nd May 2020, 18:00
  #85 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 104
The 'damage' to the underside of the nacelles is consistent with first points of contact gear up at touchdown attitude.

The GPWS 'Too Low Gear' would have been impossible to ignore though.

I would have thought that a subsequent go-around would have resulted in a tail strike.

Post crash fires are not always the result of remaining fuel. In the tragic wreckage site, there's more than likely enough burnable debris to cause significant burning.

Double engine failure due fuel exhaustion is a possibility.
Airbus Unplugged is offline  
Old 22nd May 2020, 18:03
  #86 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Estonia
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by freshgasflow View Post
Grateful if someone will please clarify for me , a non aviation person, part of the transcript.
In essence, why does the ATC controller ask about a "belly landing" when the pilot declared engine failure ? Isn't that something strange to ask , considering that landing gear problems are not always linked to engine issues ?
The go-around was stated to be because of an issue extending the nose landing gear. The flight crew did not at any point tell the controller that this issue was resolved. Instead, they declared an emergency and that both engines were out. It's a reasonable question from the controller who knows the context of why they aborted the first approach. It is faster to ask if that's what is happening than to distract the flight crew with specific questions about their configuration.
akaSylvia is offline  
Old 22nd May 2020, 18:06
  #87 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Estonia
Posts: 137
My question is: Is there any evidence that the aircraft struck the runway on the first attempt other than the unconfirmed photographs showing black marks on the nacelles? I'm not sure which is chicken and which is egg, here.
akaSylvia is offline  
Old 22nd May 2020, 18:09
  #88 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Vienna
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by FlyingAce77 View Post
And High Angle of Attack!
While i completely understand the human instinct to pull up, I have to wonder if best glide angle would have brought them to the airfield. It seems they were very close.
derjodel is offline  
Old 22nd May 2020, 18:17
  #89 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Where it is comfortable...
Age: 56
Posts: 751
Originally Posted by akaSylvia View Post
My question is: Is there any evidence that the aircraft struck the runway on the first attempt other than the unconfirmed photographs showing black marks on the nacelles?
In short, no. The photographs appear to be genuine, but the origin of the marks are educated speculation at this stage. However a ground strike appears to be the scenario most fitting the known facts at the moment. Suggest you read the Smartlynx 320 accident synopsis: https://avherald.com/h?article=4b57c3dd
andrasz is offline  
Old 22nd May 2020, 18:17
  #90 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Syd
Posts: 17
Just my 2 cents,

Damage under the engines looks more considerable than oil leak and starts too far forward.

Difficult to tell but looks like the drain masts are gone.

As for not noticing the GPWS LG warning, its happened before.



Orange future is offline  
Old 22nd May 2020, 18:18
  #91 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,835
Here's a detail from one of Hamza Omer's widely published pictures of the aircraft, presumably after the first approach. There does appear to be damage from nacelle scrapes and the RAT is indeed deployed.


Airbubba is offline  
Old 22nd May 2020, 18:18
  #92 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Middle East
Posts: 398
Various sources on social media suggesting GA due to unsafe landing gear and bird strike on the climb out leaving them without thrust. That chimes with the evidence thus far. Either way, not much that could be done in that case with little altitude, no thrust and no options.
reverserunlocked is offline  
Old 22nd May 2020, 18:22
  #93 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 12,302
Originally Posted by akaSylvia View Post
My question is: Is there any evidence that the aircraft struck the runway on the first attempt other than the unconfirmed photographs showing black marks on the nacelles?
While not conclusive, the Mode S altitude readouts referred to in previous posts would support the proposition that the aircraft descended to 0' AAL during the GA.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 22nd May 2020, 18:36
  #94 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: under a stone
Posts: 20
I'd call BS on the bird-strike. The nacelles do look scraped - and #2 looks worse than #1 with damage externding farther forward, including the lower intake-ring.
It would be interesting to know if the rear fuselage got scraped, too. In any way, the scrape-damage overall seems fairly slight: The nacelles are just held in place by the lower latches and they seem to hold together quite well.
Maybe they really did just barely scrape the runway during a late G/A.


I think they couldn't have made the runway - they probably saw the runway rising in their line of sight and did what most people would do - pull the stick.
The area doesn't look too inviting for a dead-stick landing, so one couldn't really blame them for doing it, given the amount of options...
Toryu is offline  
Old 22nd May 2020, 18:49
  #95 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Connecticut, USA
Age: 61
Posts: 244
Originally Posted by andrasz View Post
In short, no. The photographs appear to be genuine, but the origin of the marks are educated speculation at this stage. However a ground strike appears to be the scenario most fitting the known facts at the moment. Suggest you read the Smartlynx 320 accident synopsis: https://avherald.com/h?article=4b57c3dd
Given the apparent engine damage and the talk about gear problems - could it be that on initial landing attempt, gear was down but was not locked, resulting in the scrape? If they had a previous indication that the gear might not be locked, could they have come down gently in an attempt to "test" the gear and gone around when it didn't hold? Perhaps they tried to cycle the gear (resulting in the photo as shown) and then lower it again (as the video taken just before crash appears to show gear down. Additional question - would the scrape have been heard on the ATC tape?
jugofpropwash is offline  
Old 22nd May 2020, 18:53
  #96 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Geneva, Switzerland
Age: 55
Posts: 1,651
Originally Posted by FlyingAce77 View Post
And High Angle of Attack!
Well if he is indeed out of engines I guess this alpha protection max angle...
atakacs is offline  
Old 22nd May 2020, 19:02
  #97 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,387
For armchair interest, I believe if you sort through the ground impact photos you may identify one engine naelle aft of the fan cowl
lomapaseo is offline  
Old 22nd May 2020, 19:11
  #98 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: FL390
Posts: 75
As for not noticing the GPWS LG warning, its happened before.
You can't miss it on an Airbus, there's an additional ECAM master warning for gear not down.
Fursty Ferret is offline  
Old 22nd May 2020, 19:11
  #99 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Vienna
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by Landa View Post
Reviewing the pictures of the go-around, does it seem odd to anyone else that the flaps and slats appear to be retracted?
​I'm assuming that:
1. The picture was taken soon after the aborted landing... (Based on the angle the picture is taken from)
2 The pilots wouldn't retract all the flap/slat at low level.

Could this point to the approach being flown in abnormal gear/slat/flap configuration?
No hydraulics could be a reason. This is a somewhat related read: https://commons.erau.edu/cgi/viewcon...&context=jaaer
derjodel is offline  
Old 22nd May 2020, 19:26
  #100 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,835
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
While not conclusive, the Mode S altitude readouts referred to in previous posts would support the proposition that the aircraft descended to 0' AAL during the GA.
And they also seem to indicate that there was never weight on wheels sensed on the first approach since the Mode S uncorrected altitude did not go to zero as it did on previous landings with AP-BLD.
Airbubba is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.