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PIA A320 Crash Karachi

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PIA A320 Crash Karachi

Old 22nd May 2020, 14:23
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Iím flabbergasted there are survivors to be honest.

I donít think that photo earlier in the thread is of the airframe today.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 14:26
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by oxide View Post
So the had a go-around because of landing gear extension issue and then dual engine flame-out?! Doesn't make sense.

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/p...achi-pakistan/

Live ATC (4:47)
RAT was extended, on pictures on social media you see plumes of white smoke coming from the engines.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYoKqHRX...jpg&name=large
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Old 22nd May 2020, 14:28
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ChicoG View Post
You are exempt from fasting when you are travelling. Unfortunately some people don't adhere to this because it means making up the lost fast later on = a longer Ramadhan.
I personally never fast when Operating a Flight, and Yes when Traveling or Sick you are exempted from FastingĒ
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Old 22nd May 2020, 14:29
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Nialler View Post
Is it possible to avoid Ramadan as a factor in this tragedy until the facts are known?
I'm sorry, but no it isn't. I have worked with several otherwise very competent Middle Eastern colleagues who (in an office environment) were becoming almost completely useless by the end of Ramadan. It is not so much the fasting during the day, but the fact that most of the night is spent eating rather than sleeping, with the cumulative sleep deprivation. Flying is a job that requires maximum alertness at all times, and such practices are not too conductive to having a well rested crew.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 14:34
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FlyingAce77 View Post
I personally never fast when Operating a Flight, and Yes when Traveling or Sick you are exempted from FastingĒ
But are you not supposed to add on the days missed to the end of Ramadan? When your family and friends are celebrating. Nobody would want to do that would they?
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Old 22nd May 2020, 14:37
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gypsy View Post
But are you not supposed to add on the days missed to the end of Ramadan? When your family and friends are celebrating. Nobody would want to do that would they?
Responsibility is what is required, I have seen senior commanders and FOs fasting on ULH, itís crazy and highly irresponsible behavior- Yes you can fast after Ramadan to make up the missed days.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 14:43
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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Quoting this tweet:
The black soot within the engine is likely caused by the IDGs which generates electricity for the plane.
Does this make any sense please?..
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Old 22nd May 2020, 14:46
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Edited KHI ATC audio from a LiveATC.net clip posted above. It's a .zip file which will open on most computers but not on most phones or tablets.

Sounds like the first transmission from PK8303 is something like 'We are comfortable and we can make it inshallah'.
Attached Files
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Old 22nd May 2020, 14:53
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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What warnings do A320 flight crew get for low oil quantity and/or low oil pressure in the engines?
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Old 22nd May 2020, 14:53
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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Fasting and flying do not mix ! Never allowed a fasting pilot to be PF ! Situation worst in a high demand event !
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Old 22nd May 2020, 15:03
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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It is more reminiscent of posters (thankfully a minority on this site) who want to climb all over a disaster in oreder to be able to say when then the report comes in: "Look, I called it within an hour of the event."

Like gamblers, they never report their losses; only their wins. If it turns out that there was some equipment or operational failure they won't e around to defend their initial assessment.

Then you have the point-scorers, who seem to want to make some sort of point about a religion or other ideology.

Potentially more than one hundred people died today. That is a major human tragedy.

There will be an intense and deep investigation. The pilots had families and friends. To speculate at this this stage that the pilots may have been less than professional is an insult.

Rein yourself in. There will be plenty of time for blame when, you know, an investigation occurs?

Edited to remove a post to which I was not actually responding. My apologies to the poster alainthailande whose post I inadvertently had quoted.

Last edited by Nialler; 22nd May 2020 at 15:15.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 15:09
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by vmandr View Post
link to audio

02:53 - Roger... AND repeated aural warning (chime ?) sounds in background
04:50 - 8303 going around
06:48 - sir we have..just give me 2000 (feet)
07:17 - we are trying to maintain...
09:06 - we are proceeding direct, we have lost engines
09:36 - MAYDAY,MAYDAY,MAYDAY Pakistan 830..3 [ last x-mission ? ]

0940: - ATC : Pakistan 8303 Roger both runways available to land
The aural warning at 2:51 in that recording would be at 09:32:51 Zulu, since the recording starts at 0930Z.

According to the timestamps from the FR24 data they reached the minimum altitude on the first landing attempt at around 09:34:25Z

So the aural warning seems to have started at least 1:30 minutes before the first landing attempt, when they above 1400 feet (not sure exactly how high they were, the FR24 data is incomplete, it shows 1400ft at 9:33:30Z, and they don't give any earlier data yet).


So it seems something went wrong quite early. I understand the landing gear not down warning should start at 750ft AGL, and according to the data they were higher than that, so not sure what that chime was.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 15:11
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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The gear doors appear closed so possibly an attempted gear up landing which was misjudged. The aircraft floats further down the runway then anticipated, crew realise they are running out of room and decide to go around just before the aircraft touches. The lower front sections of the engines appear relatively undamaged suggesting a nose up attitude during the ground contact.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 15:13
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CodyBlade View Post
Danger of fasting for aircrew is dehydration and low sugar.
I have flown PIA from Islamabad to Karachi during the month of Ramadan. Aircraft lined up for departure just as the sun set and Iftar was declared. Take-off was delayed until all pax, cabin and flight crew had a drink and a sweet. Although I don't know for sure, I'd wager that the flight crew are allowed to hydrate themselves due to the safety critical nature of their jobs. You will find that the fast is something you should aim to accomplish only if you can. It is not as mandatory as some people might have you think.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 15:36
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MikeSnow View Post
The aural warning at 2:51 in that recording would be at 09:32:51 Zulu, since the recording starts at 0930Z.
I'd be very cautious about trying to get an exact time off a media clip including those of LiveATC.net Usually these serialized audio archives have some intentional overlap between the segments so you can edit across the break without losing anything. In fact, if you merge say the 0900Z segment and the 0930Z segment, you will often get repeated audio unless you trim it out. But, this is not consistent from location to location in my experience.

Also, some streams seem to give different timestamps when played on different devices as I've observed here in the past. Legacy codecs on the machine perhaps?

I scrubbed the 0900Z LiveATC tape but didn't find anything relevant about PK8303. Unfortunately one of the scanner channels had an open squelch with noise for much of the time on the last part of the clip.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 15:49
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Feathers McGraw View Post
What warnings do A320 flight crew get for low oil quantity and/or low oil pressure in the engines?
In the Engine System Display (bottom screen of the two in between the pilots) you have readings of oil quantity and pressure, which depending on the value can blink or change colour to attract the attention of the crew. And of course you have ECAM procedures that may be triggered.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 16:05
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cloudtopper View Post
Few years back , during Ramadan an Airblue A320 also crashed during a circle to land.

Is it still Ramadan ?
No then it was not Ramadan but Shabb e Brŗt,
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Old 22nd May 2020, 16:08
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Grav View Post
In the Engine System Display (bottom screen of the two in between the pilots) you have readings of oil quantity and pressure, which depending on the value can blink or change colour to attract the attention of the crew. And of course you have ECAM procedures that may be triggered.
Thanks, I was wondering, given that there is a photo showing what could be oil smoke from both nacelles which themselves are very dirty around the bottom of the cowling area, if the loss of thrust during the go-around could be due to engine run down from loss of lubrication. I'm finding it hard to believe that there was a belly landing on the first approach, and I wondered if there was oil loss could it have started at the departure end of the flight and gradually lost oil during the whole trip. How easy is it to leave the oil filler caps off?
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Old 22nd May 2020, 16:13
  #79 (permalink)  
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Posters,

Remarks about race and religious rituals have no place here. We're here to discuss aviation, not race and religion....
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Old 22nd May 2020, 16:26
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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Another CCTV Video:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1263858937138483200

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