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KLM resumes daily flights from Amsterdam to Madrid,Barcelona and Rome.

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KLM resumes daily flights from Amsterdam to Madrid,Barcelona and Rome.

Old 5th May 2020, 11:59
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
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What difference does leaving the middle seat free make?

The air in the cabin is a mixture of fresh air taken from the compressors on the engines, conditioned through the air packs and then mixed with existing cabin air and pumped throughout the cabin by the recirculation fans.

It wouldn't matter if there were only two people sat on the plane, at opposite ends of the cabin; they would both still be breathing in the same air
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Old 5th May 2020, 12:38
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by F100 driver View Post
What difference does leaving the middle seat free make?

The air in the cabin is a mixture of fresh air taken from the compressors on the engines, conditioned through the air packs and then mixed with existing cabin air and pumped throughout the cabin by the recirculation fans.

It wouldn't matter if there were only two people sat on the plane, at opposite ends of the cabin; they would both still be breathing in the same air
Its not only about the air but also about touching something wich your hand another persons hand just has touched, the armrest. Or rubbing shoulders. One thing is to handsanatize your hands after boarding. A different thing is to do it between every time you touch the armrest and your face on a 2 hour flight. If no one in the middel seat you can clean the armrests with a disinfectant wipe when you board and you are then the only one touching both of them.
And lets hope the airline have the sense to use more fresh air than existing air in their mix these days. Even though the HEPA filters should do a good job on the reused part.
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Old 5th May 2020, 13:13
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by vikingivesterled View Post
And lets hope the airline have the sense to use more fresh air than existing air in their mix these days. Even though the HEPA filters should do a good job on the reused part.
Both Boeing and airbus advise against turn off the recirc portion of the airconditioning.
Using only fresh air will drastically reduce airflow and increases the chance airborne droplets (with virus) will float further away from the source.

With the recirculation added to the mix, air flow is mostly vertical (coming from the ceiling and exiting via the floor directory below it) keeping the droplets close to the source.
And with a 99%+ capture rate of the filters, you might end up with more clean air in a certain amount of time.

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Old 5th May 2020, 13:51
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
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It is a very interesting debate.

On one hand, there is this crazy race, in which biotechnology companies around the world are throwing everything on the table to find a treatment/vaccine. With the FDA sometimes expediting processes that, under normal circumstances, would take considerably more time to accomplish.

And then we have got this almost delusional idea that many western countries seem to push into their citizens: We will win the war against the virus. No, we won't. For decades we have been oblivious to the true reality of humans. Super advanced society, too busy traveling, staring at LED screens, and being warm and comfortable after pressing a switch at home. The virus will keep killing and, unfortunately, the weakest will suffer the most part.

At some point I want to believe that governments will say "kids, here's the deal: life sucks, nature is a b***". The same way we take cancer deaths, tobacco deaths, road accident deaths, diabetes deaths, cardiovascular deaths, etc. as normal.

Take a combination of Swedish+S.Korean approach, and let life continue.
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Old 5th May 2020, 14:27
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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It is interesting to see wide range of experts who compare some numbers and find conclusion followed by solutions to problem . 😊😀😁😂😂
Numbers- do you really believe in numbers provided by South European countries? 😍😍
And than according to those "relevant" numbers "experts" conclude that is worst ever virus and we have to close life- particular stop aviation.
It seems that not only Balkans reserved for debil politician but Western Europe as well.
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Old 5th May 2020, 14:57
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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The more we know about the virus the better, the longer it takes before you get it the better chance of survival.
Early in New York you had a 1 in 3 chance of survival if you where intubated. Now they know to wait as long as you can before intubation.
A month ago there was no drug they could give you to help. Now they have 1, and more will likely come on stream as time progresses.
By autumn they might have the deathrate down to flulike proportions, Hopefully before the normal flu season starts again in the western world. Then we can go back to normal.
But with some you can't win. If you keep much open and many dies, like Sweden, you didn do enough to limit suffering. If you lock everything down people are concluding that since not enough died it is not so serious so why do they have to suffer economically.

In the meantime airlines can do their outmost to not become the new hotbed of contamination. Just like every other business have to. Why should airlines be allowed to cram them in when restaurants, bars, supermarkets and hirdressers aren't allowed to. They all also would make (more) money if they could carry on as before.
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Old 5th May 2020, 15:00
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by vlieger View Post
Sorry, and this is getting off-topic, but the real number as per Financial Times is around 50k. This is with a lockdown. Without it you'd probably be looking at half a million. Your point is?

Still 1%.

and yes.. my wife and I contracted in Bangkok in 1st week March. I was poorly for 4-5 days, she had some actually breathing issues requiring O2.

I donít take this lightly but neither do I take my being able to pay my mortgage or put my two kids though school.

I call it acceptable loss. The earth is over populated, we are straining its resources.
Are less people a bad thing? The vast majority of those dying had a strong underlying conditions.

Some of you recoil at that, but I am allowed my opinion.

If I was Captain of a sinking ship with 100 pax and 98 life bests am I not going to hand out the 98 I have? All we can do is do our best for the greater good.

My .02
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Old 5th May 2020, 15:31
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
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How about today's revelations from France? It turned out that there was a COVID-19 case as early as 27 December 2019, well and by far before lockdown. Who knows, maybe there were other cases even earlier. Also, what can explain the abnormally high number of pneumonia cases in other countries in the last months of 2019? All sorts of numerical data analysis follow one simple rule - crap in, crap out. When you don't have good input data, you can't draw meaningful conclusions. A couple of months into the havoc we still don't know what exactly we don't know.

The gradual opening up that's happening throughout Europe now seems to be more of a necessity than of something that was concluded on the basis of facts and figures. We need to somehow get the wheels turning to stay that side of the grass for as long as possible. Otherwise, the social crisis will take its own victims in huge numbers. Unduly harsh? Maybe. But that's how it's been ever since.
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Old 5th May 2020, 16:53
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.liv...dds-dying.html

https://videos.utahgunexchange.com/w...Xl8R4EHcf.html

Granted its a few years old, but dying from COVID-19 and dying from an accident have roughly the same probability, let's all stay at home to avoid accidents. (And don't say accidents can be avoided, that's why they are called accidents!) Watch the video that is the second link.
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Old 5th May 2020, 17:17
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Air Baltic will immediately start flying from Riga on 13th May after emergency state is over.
Only 17 people died in Latvia from COVID till today, no new cases for last 2 days and also less than 10 new cases per day are registered in neighboring Estonia and Lithuania during last week.
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Old 5th May 2020, 18:17
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8282865/Passengers-slam-airlines-lack-social-distancing-crammed-like-sardines.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-52539141


Flightradar24 right now is fairly busy!

Building anger on the BBC UK News site.

But good luck KLM.
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Old 5th May 2020, 18:49
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by covec View Post
Yes the BBC are having a field day on knocking the aviation industry. They disgust me - alongside most Western TV news outlets I hasten to add.
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Old 5th May 2020, 19:53
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Originally Posted by eimin View Post
It is a very interesting debate.

On one hand, there is this crazy race, in which biotechnology companies around the world are throwing everything on the table to find a treatment/vaccine. With the FDA sometimes expediting processes that, under normal circumstances, would take considerably more time to accomplish.

And then we have got this almost delusional idea that many western countries seem to push into their citizens: We will win the war against the virus. No, we won't. For decades we have been oblivious to the true reality of humans. Super advanced society, too busy traveling, staring at LED screens, and being warm and comfortable after pressing a switch at home. The virus will keep killing and, unfortunately, the weakest will suffer the most part.

At some point I want to believe that governments will say "kids, here's the deal: life sucks, nature is a b***". The same way we take cancer deaths, tobacco deaths, road accident deaths, diabetes deaths, cardiovascular deaths, etc. as normal.

Take a combination of Swedish+S.Korean approach, and let life continue.
Hereís the thing.... health care workers arenít going to die treating my heart attack, lung cancer, broken bones, crushed skulls.
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Old 5th May 2020, 21:39
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Narfalk
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Originally Posted by FreemaninHK View Post
Still 1%.

and yes.. my wife and I contracted in Bangkok in 1st week March. I was poorly for 4-5 days, she had some actually breathing issues requiring O2.

I don’t take this lightly but neither do I take my being able to pay my mortgage or put my two kids though school.

I call it acceptable loss. The earth is over populated, we are straining its resources.
Are less people a bad thing? The vast majority of those dying had a strong underlying conditions.

Some of you recoil at that, but I am allowed my opinion.

If I was Captain of a sinking ship with 100 pax and 98 life bests am I not going to hand out the 98 I have? All we can do is do our best for the greater good.

My .02
Fortunately most people think your opinion is up your own bottom. Joe bloggs is not going to fly anywhere if they haven't had it. I watched the footfall die on my lots planning prog day on day before lockdown. We were cutting routes way before the lockdown. You opinions will not get people flying.
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Old 5th May 2020, 22:54
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Originally Posted by SAMXXV View Post
UK population in 2019 = 66.55 million
UK Covid-19 deaths as of today = 28734

The deaths to date = 0.04317%
the percentage is totally irrelevant. The families of your 28734 dead are still grieving.
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Old 5th May 2020, 23:19
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ireland
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Why are everybody comparing the Covid19 deathrates with annual death rates for other stuff. We are only in the beginning og this but some are already toting up the totals like if a year has gone and it was all over.
About 1% of the population in different countries has been confirmed with the virus. Nromally 1/3 are naturally immune to a disease and 1/3 for seome reason or another don't get it. Then we shall need to get up to 33%. And with all the easing of lockdowns that will accelerate now. So take all your covid numbers and multiply with 33, or a litle bit less as we learn more and lower the deathrates as we go along.

This still have a long way to run and in the meantime we need to find new smart ways to save our industry. Social separation, either by distancing or other means of physical separation, like masks, walls or curtains, is the current model.
Maybe we will get charters to gated holliday resorts with time. If they can be conducted in a manner that both the paying public and governements are happy with.
Rushing to normality is the dream of some politicians and many airline CEO's but it will have a high, maybe not purely monetary, cost.
Setting up a few stuffed flights is however not going to entice many of those that pay their fare themselves to fly, or visit neither Spain nor Italy this year.
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Old 6th May 2020, 05:43
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Europe
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Originally Posted by SINGAPURCANAC View Post
Numbers- do you really believe in numbers provided by South European countries? 😍😍
The numbers provided by South European countries are at least as reliable than those provided by UK for instance....

Originally Posted by [color=#222222
vikingivesterled;10773775]
Setting up a few stuffed flights is however not going to entice many of those that pay their fare themselves to fly, or visit neither Spain nor Italy this year.
Would it be better to visit France, UK?

.
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Old 6th May 2020, 06:01
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: EU
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Originally Posted by Bidule View Post
The numbers provided by South European countries are at least as reliable than those provided by UK for instance....



Would it be better to visit France, UK?

.
I guess northern Italy is a very safe to go this summer/autumn. Immunity will be among highest in Europe, and the Italians will be both cautious and disciplined in social distancing.
The question is will the Italian government allow you to visit?
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Old 6th May 2020, 06:13
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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the Italians will be both cautious and disciplined
Have you ever been to Italy?
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Old 6th May 2020, 06:14
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
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Thumbs up The white swans fly again

I should imagine the resumption of flights by KLM is partly due to Dutch government's temporary emergency employment bridging scheme. It is based on the percentage of turnover lost due to the pandemic. With 100% of turnover lost, the government subsidises 90% of the wage sum for 3 months. The main conditions for eligibility to the scheme are that the company in question does not apply for any redundancies for economic reasons during the 3 months and that all wages continue to be paid in full. The Dutch government has said it will likely extend the measure for another period if necessary, possibly with additional conditions. During the scheme employees can work, so it is not a (partial) unemployment scheme. If turnover rises, the wage subsidy is adapted accordingly. The Dutch government has budgeted 10 billion euros for the scheme, which could go on for 9 months.

Credits: with thanks to my Dutch Ppruning colleagues for providing me with the above information.

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