IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs
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VR is not being offered: why are we even discussing it?
Similarly, sifsu, if one of us went on an oil workers website to tell a group of workers facing redundancy that “life is a bitch” he’d be told in short order where to shove it!
Similarly, sifsu, if one of us went on an oil workers website to tell a group of workers facing redundancy that “life is a bitch” he’d be told in short order where to shove it!
Last edited by ShotOne; 30th Apr 2020 at 15:39.
I have a family to support, kids in uni, elderly parents and only a few years left to work before that is it for 20+ years of retirement. Many of you meanwhile have years of employment ahead of you and if the airlines don't bounce back you can do something else.
I still enjoy my job. I'm living this life for me and mine, not for you and yours. I owe you nothing. Good luck to all; I ain't going nowheres voluntarily. Nothing sad in it at all.
I still enjoy my job. I'm living this life for me and mine, not for you and yours. I owe you nothing. Good luck to all; I ain't going nowheres voluntarily. Nothing sad in it at all.
I used to be proud of the community of pilots that I could call myself part of, now some of them embarrass me with their forum posts. I'm embarrassed for myself because I might have called some of those greedy, selfish pilots my friends. I hope I never knew Fly747.
Good luck to all of you out there, whoever you fly for. Most guys at the top had an expectation of a career at BA until 55. Every extra year a bonus. I hope that at least some do the right thing.
Very few pilots can afford to retire comfortably at 55
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I too am retired, at 55, reasonably comfortable and have no personal interest. I am 100% in agreement with RoyHudd.
I used to be proud to be part of BA, now I am embarrassed by their attack on the pilots. Sad that my BA could have changed so much.
I used to be proud of the community of pilots that I could call myself part of, now some of them embarrass me with their forum posts. I'm embarrassed for myself because I might have called some of those greedy, selfish pilots my friends. I hope I never knew Fly747.
Good luck to all of you out there, whoever you fly for. Most guys at the top had an expectation of a career at BA until 55. Every extra year a bonus. I hope that at least some do the right thing.
I used to be proud to be part of BA, now I am embarrassed by their attack on the pilots. Sad that my BA could have changed so much.
I used to be proud of the community of pilots that I could call myself part of, now some of them embarrass me with their forum posts. I'm embarrassed for myself because I might have called some of those greedy, selfish pilots my friends. I hope I never knew Fly747.
Good luck to all of you out there, whoever you fly for. Most guys at the top had an expectation of a career at BA until 55. Every extra year a bonus. I hope that at least some do the right thing.
Have people seen this
https://petition.parliament.uk/petit...JNFG8lAroPI0Kc
Might not do much good but we can only try
https://petition.parliament.uk/petit...JNFG8lAroPI0Kc
Might not do much good but we can only try
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Airbubba I don't work for BA but yes that scenario is realistic, begs the question in the future will a larger proportion of senior FO's continue to pass on opportunities for Command due to this risk? You could have a scenario where someone takes a command, never gets the payrise due to Furlough, and is now looking down the barrel of redundancy. Ask me how I know.... 
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Currently you need to be more senior to get an internal RHS move to the 777 than you do to take a reasonably middle of seniority LHS on the 'bus out of Heathrow!
Progressive degradation of lifestyle on SH has led to many pilots taking lifestyle decisions and going part time whilst remaining RHS on a LH fleet.
So, yes, there are an awful lot of Captains who are much more junior than SFO's.
Progressive degradation of lifestyle on SH has led to many pilots taking lifestyle decisions and going part time whilst remaining RHS on a LH fleet.
So, yes, there are an awful lot of Captains who are much more junior than SFO's.
Just read Balpa’s reply to AB’s letter. Pretty much sums it up I think. It will be interesting to hear the companies’ responses to the various points raised. Personally, I don’t acknowledge that pleading poverty while sitting on a 7-9 Billion Euro cash pile is morally or legally justifiable.
Just read Balpa’s reply to AB’s letter. Pretty much sums it up I think. It will be interesting to hear the companies’ responses to the various points raised. Personally, I don’t acknowledge that pleading poverty while sitting on a 7-9 Billion Euro cash pile is morally or legally justifiable.
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Airbubba I don't work for BA but yes that scenario is realistic, begs the question in the future will a larger proportion of senior FO's continue to pass on opportunities for Command due to this risk? You could have a scenario where someone takes a command, never gets the payrise due to Furlough, and is now looking down the barrel of redundancy. Ask me how I know....
Wonder what they mean by an 'assessment process'. A 'you bet your licence' sim check?
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Just read Balpa’s reply to AB’s letter. Pretty much sums it up I think. It will be interesting to hear the companies’ responses to the various points raised. Personally, I don’t acknowledge that pleading poverty while sitting on a 7-9 Billion Euro cash pile is morally or legally justifiable.
BALPA 'fighting for every pilot job at BA'
Release date: 30/04/2020Responding to the latest news on British Airways, BALPA General Secretary, Brian Strutton said:
“BALPA is fighting to save every pilot job at BA. The company has declined Government support claiming it is financially secure enough to survive the coronavirus crisis, so it is hard to see how these cuts can be justified.
“There are many options to ensure BA can continue its business and survive coronavirus and BALPA does not accept that job losses are the only answer. Pilots want evidence that all options have been explored fully.”
Commenting on reports that BA is pulling out of Gatwick Airport, BALPA General Secretary, Brian Strutton continued:
“As far as BALPA is aware there is no truth in the rumour that British Airways will pull out of Gatwick and there has been no indication of that from BA to us. However, it is on our list of questions to ask them.”
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I know this is an unpalatable thing to discuss, but we have to consider the environmental aspect of this. Of course it's terrible for everyone who will lose a job, and that may bring much hardship, but the continual talk of the aviation industry 'bouncing back' and perhaps getting sizeable government support is to decry totally the awful environmental mess we were already in, and continue to be in. Aviation as it was 6 weeks ago is absolutely not sustainable environmentally, anymore than it now is economically. We need to face up to this.
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Another April 28 BA letter reported in the media.
Letter to colleagues from Alex Cruz, Chairman and CEO at British Airways
Yesterday, British Airways flew just a handful of aircraft out of Heathrow. On a normal day we would fly more than 300. What we are facing as an airline, like so many other businesses up and down the country, is that there is no ‘normal’ any longer.
The global aviation body, IATA, has said that the industry has never seen a downturn this deep before, and that full year industry passenger revenues could plummet 55% compared to 2019, while traffic falls 48%. Many airlines have grounded all of their planes. Sadly, we will see some airlines go out of business with the resulting job losses.
Our very limited flying schedule means that revenues are not coming into our business. We are taking every possible action to conserve cash, which will help us to weather the storm in the short-term. We are working closely with partners and suppliers to discuss repayment terms; we are re-negotiating contracts where possible; and we are considering all the options for our current and future aircraft fleet. All of these actions alone are not enough.
In the last few weeks, the outlook for the aviation industry has worsened further and we must take action now. We are a strong, well-managed business that has faced into, and overcome, many crises in our hundred-year history. We must overcome this crisis ourselves, too.
There is no Government bailout standing by for BA and we cannot expect the taxpayer to offset salaries indefinitely. Any money we borrow now will only be short-term and will not address the longer-term challenges we will face.
We do not know when countries will reopen their borders or when the lockdowns will lift, and so we have to reimagine and reshape our airline and create a new future for our people, our customers and the destinations we serve. We have informed the Government and the Trade Unions of our proposals to consult over a number of changes, including possible reductions in headcount. We will begin a period of consultation, during which we will work with the Trade Unions to protect as many jobs as possible. Your views matter and we will listen to all practical proposals.
The scale of this challenge requires substantial change so we are in a competitive and resilient position, not just to address the immediate Covid-19 pandemic, but also to withstand any longer-term reductions in customer demand, economic shocks or other events that could affect us. However challenging this is, the longer we delay difficult decisions, the fewer options will be open to us.
I want to pay tribute to the thousands of British Airways colleagues who are playing a vital role in the global response to the Covid-19 crisis. Whether you are supporting our repatriation flights or the transport of essential cargo; or one of the hundreds of colleagues volunteering with organisations such as the NHS, you have my sincere respect and thanks.
This has been a difficult message to write and one I never thought I would need to send. I know how tight-knit the BA family is, and how concerned you will be, not just for yourself but for your colleagues, too. We must act decisively now to ensure that British Airways has a strong future and continues connecting Britain with the world, and the world with Britain.
Thank you.
Alex
Yesterday, British Airways flew just a handful of aircraft out of Heathrow. On a normal day we would fly more than 300. What we are facing as an airline, like so many other businesses up and down the country, is that there is no ‘normal’ any longer.
The global aviation body, IATA, has said that the industry has never seen a downturn this deep before, and that full year industry passenger revenues could plummet 55% compared to 2019, while traffic falls 48%. Many airlines have grounded all of their planes. Sadly, we will see some airlines go out of business with the resulting job losses.
Our very limited flying schedule means that revenues are not coming into our business. We are taking every possible action to conserve cash, which will help us to weather the storm in the short-term. We are working closely with partners and suppliers to discuss repayment terms; we are re-negotiating contracts where possible; and we are considering all the options for our current and future aircraft fleet. All of these actions alone are not enough.
In the last few weeks, the outlook for the aviation industry has worsened further and we must take action now. We are a strong, well-managed business that has faced into, and overcome, many crises in our hundred-year history. We must overcome this crisis ourselves, too.
There is no Government bailout standing by for BA and we cannot expect the taxpayer to offset salaries indefinitely. Any money we borrow now will only be short-term and will not address the longer-term challenges we will face.
We do not know when countries will reopen their borders or when the lockdowns will lift, and so we have to reimagine and reshape our airline and create a new future for our people, our customers and the destinations we serve. We have informed the Government and the Trade Unions of our proposals to consult over a number of changes, including possible reductions in headcount. We will begin a period of consultation, during which we will work with the Trade Unions to protect as many jobs as possible. Your views matter and we will listen to all practical proposals.
The scale of this challenge requires substantial change so we are in a competitive and resilient position, not just to address the immediate Covid-19 pandemic, but also to withstand any longer-term reductions in customer demand, economic shocks or other events that could affect us. However challenging this is, the longer we delay difficult decisions, the fewer options will be open to us.
I want to pay tribute to the thousands of British Airways colleagues who are playing a vital role in the global response to the Covid-19 crisis. Whether you are supporting our repatriation flights or the transport of essential cargo; or one of the hundreds of colleagues volunteering with organisations such as the NHS, you have my sincere respect and thanks.
This has been a difficult message to write and one I never thought I would need to send. I know how tight-knit the BA family is, and how concerned you will be, not just for yourself but for your colleagues, too. We must act decisively now to ensure that British Airways has a strong future and continues connecting Britain with the world, and the world with Britain.
Thank you.
Alex
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I think the proposed assessment process will only be when they have identified the fleets and seats in “surplus”. At a rough guess that process will be when be a selection matrix will come into play - which may or may not include LIFO or weighted LIFO - that hasn’t exactly been spelled out at this point. As you say, they can hardly make you go into the Sim to see if you can perform well enough to keep your job.
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I know this is an unpalatable thing to discuss, but we have to consider the environmental aspect of this. Of course it's terrible for everyone who will lose a job, and that may bring much hardship, but the continual talk of the aviation industry 'bouncing back' and perhaps getting sizeable government support is to decry totally the awful environmental mess we were already in, and continue to be in. Aviation as it was 6 weeks ago is absolutely not sustainable environmentally, anymore than it now is economically. We need to face up to this.
Of global CO2 emissions, aviation counts for just 2%.
Road transport is many many times worse (and increasing at a higher rate than aviation), shipping is about as much, too. Transportation accounts for roughly 15% of global CO2, and Aviation is one of the smallest parts of the transportation group - as I say road transport being considerably worse.
Why am I saying all of this?
Yes, I accept aircraft pollute. But I don't accept the hysteria associated with flying, because it's popular to flight shame, if people also don't get hysterical about all the other contributors. The simple fact is the large majority of transportation pollutions (road) can be eliminated by using electric power from a green source. The same can be done for most of the other contributing sectors (energy). It cannot be done for aircraft and likely wont in our lifetimes.
How about we stop the hysteria surrounding Aviation and actually do our own research before posting all over social media how bad flying is.
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we would propose to use statutory terms for redundancy pay
To be clear, the current 'statutory' is 1.5 weeks per full year (over age 40), capped @ £538 per week, and capped at 12 years.
I am now working elsewhere am about to leave on statutory plus enhancement of just 1 extra week for every 3 years.
Times they are a-changing indeed.
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I think the proposed assessment process will only be when they have identified the fleets and seats in “surplus”. At a rough guess that process will be when be a selection matrix will come into play - which may or may not include LIFO or weighted LIFO - that hasn’t exactly been spelled out at this point. As you say, they can hardly make you go into the Sim to see if you can perform well enough to keep your job.
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Thank you for engaging with the issue (unlike clvf88 who just went for the unflattering ad hominem). You're right of course that aviation is one of many polluting industries. Two of your points stick out to me:
1) one single industry (aviation) counts for 2% of emissions. That's astonishing for a single industry
2) whereas other modes of transport can probably reduce emissions, it's not realistic that aviation will in any reasonable time
If the climate were in a moderately worrying position I think we could accept aviation's contribution and tackle the rest. However, the broad scientific consensus now seems to be that we just cannot be picky about the industries who do and don't contribute.
So I stand by my point: sadly, very sadly, aviation cannot return to business as usual. And that is very apposite to this discussion.
1) one single industry (aviation) counts for 2% of emissions. That's astonishing for a single industry
2) whereas other modes of transport can probably reduce emissions, it's not realistic that aviation will in any reasonable time
If the climate were in a moderately worrying position I think we could accept aviation's contribution and tackle the rest. However, the broad scientific consensus now seems to be that we just cannot be picky about the industries who do and don't contribute.
So I stand by my point: sadly, very sadly, aviation cannot return to business as usual. And that is very apposite to this discussion.
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Thank you for engaging with the issue (unlike clvf88 who just went for the unflattering ad hominem). You're right of course that aviation is one of many polluting industries. Two of your points stick out to me:
1) one single industry (aviation) counts for 2% of emissions. That's astonishing for a single industry
2) whereas other modes of transport can probably reduce emissions, it's not realistic that aviation will in any reasonable time
If the climate were in a moderately worrying position I think we could accept aviation's contribution and tackle the rest. However, the broad scientific consensus now seems to be that we just cannot be picky about the industries who do and don't contribute.
So I stand by my point: sadly, very sadly, aviation cannot return to business as usual. And that is very apposite to this discussion.
1) one single industry (aviation) counts for 2% of emissions. That's astonishing for a single industry
2) whereas other modes of transport can probably reduce emissions, it's not realistic that aviation will in any reasonable time
If the climate were in a moderately worrying position I think we could accept aviation's contribution and tackle the rest. However, the broad scientific consensus now seems to be that we just cannot be picky about the industries who do and don't contribute.
So I stand by my point: sadly, very sadly, aviation cannot return to business as usual. And that is very apposite to this discussion.
I also concur with the view that you are deliberately trying to be provocative on a thread being avidly followed by desperately worried BA pilots. Pilots who if they lose their current jobs will lose their careers not to mention the financial loss of their massive self funded training costs.
But I too will bite....
2% is astonishing considering the huge amount of vitriol it attracts from the likes of you. Go away and focus on something that will make a real difference.
If aviation were eliminated in one go, the planet will not notice. Indeed Indian industry would replace it within a month. The point being made though, as you well know, is that there are practical alternatives to other forms of more polluting transportation. There is not for aviation, yet.
Now, please, go away. This is a pilots forum, not for self styled climate activists.
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Thank you for engaging with the issue (unlike clvf88 who just went for the unflattering ad hominem). You're right of course that aviation is one of many polluting industries.
1) one single industry (aviation) counts for 2% of emissions. That's astonishing for a single industry
2) whereas other modes of transport can probably reduce emissions, it's not realistic that aviation will in any reasonable time
If the climate were in a moderately worrying position I think we could accept aviation's contribution and tackle the rest. However, the broad scientific consensus now seems to be that we just cannot be picky about the industries who do and don't contribute.
1) one single industry (aviation) counts for 2% of emissions. That's astonishing for a single industry
2) whereas other modes of transport can probably reduce emissions, it's not realistic that aviation will in any reasonable time
If the climate were in a moderately worrying position I think we could accept aviation's contribution and tackle the rest. However, the broad scientific consensus now seems to be that we just cannot be picky about the industries who do and don't contribute.
Good luck to all of you at BA; hopefully CR can be avoided where possible.
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Sorry to raise hackles folk. I realise this isn’t the place or audience for this. I’ll shall retire gracefully to the spotters balcony. I genuinely wish the best to everyone who will be affected by this
Uncle Pete
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Belated apology to Maximum Pete. You were indeed too subtle for me and my dim brain.
From chatting to a pal today, it seems that certain pension-rich 60+-year olds are happily operating long haul flights for BA with no view to retiring now and helping out others. Very sad. Selfish people. There were some at bmi too, evidently not yourself.
From chatting to a pal today, it seems that certain pension-rich 60+-year olds are happily operating long haul flights for BA with no view to retiring now and helping out others. Very sad. Selfish people. There were some at bmi too, evidently not yourself.
Stay safe everyone and good luck to you all.
MP
