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IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

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IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

Old 24th Jun 2020, 23:06
  #1061 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Age: 55
Posts: 2,845
Not sure how you got the idea I'm crew. I'm not, for the record.

But yes you are correct, the extension of furlough only applies to those depts that were already furloughed.
TURIN is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2020, 09:34
  #1062 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: In the sky
Posts: 38
CityFlyer cabin crew are now furloughed for July, subject to recall (pilots and ground based staff were already furloughed).
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Old 25th Jun 2020, 12:36
  #1063 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 25
I think Turin maybe engineering & as an ex engineer myself with BA all I will say is good luck!!
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 13:39
  #1064 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: West Country
Posts: 1,254
Latest BA offer actually increases pay for some members of staff..

British Airways has vowed not to cut the salaries of its 14,000 cabin crew by more than 20pc in an offer presented to unions as the airline seeks to slash costs after flights were grounded worldwide.

The flag carrier is already planning to axe up to 12,000 staff - more than a quarter of its workforce

The proposals would also mean that more than 40pc of cabin staff who survive the purge get a pay rise, with "market-leading salaries" of between £28,000 and £31,000 for crew and £38,000 for managers.

The 20pc limit on pay cuts was intended to help cushion the blow for long-serving BA crew on contracts that pay them up as much as £70,000, or three times the market rate.

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Old 26th Jun 2020, 14:08
  #1065 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Between a rock & a hard place.
Posts: 456
BA seem to Ben negotiating with themselves and losing. Whilst this looks like a reasonable offer it isn’t. Cabin crew pay consists of different elements, this ‘cushion’ is only for the basic salary. Up to 50 percent of take home pay is variable pay which BA will simply abolish. A 20 percent pay cut suddenly looks more like a much larger percentage pay cut. The subsistence payment to be introduced is cheap and 100 percent taxable.

This is not a reasonable offer.

And nor is it temporary. Any pay uplifts which are negotiated will not apply until the pay parity is achieved for form MF crew and new joiners. So it’s a pay freeze for many years to come. It has also been an own goal. MF crew are understandably annoyed that their new one fleet colleagues will earn substantially more than them, and MF SCCMs who transfer to the manager role may well find that they are the cheapest crew member on their team. Lead balloons spring to mind. BA are either deliberately creating muddy waters or they are increasingly unprepared and incompetent. A plan that was supposedly long formulated looks more like adhoc amateur hour.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 14:21
  #1066 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Age: 55
Posts: 2,845
Rumour mill is active today. No compulsary redundancies for pilots but a 15% pay cut. Eek!
TURIN is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2020, 14:36
  #1067 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 680
There have been an awful lot of pilot rumours floating around recently. I think it best to completely ignore them. They may well be based on fact, but they could equally likely be complete works of fiction.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 14:41
  #1068 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2019
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It has been said before but worth restating. I know this is a rumour network but I would urge all to refrain from posting or spreading rumours. If they’re worse than the actual deal, it causes unnecessary panic, worry, fear, depression. If they’re better than the actual deal, it causes an even greater heartache when the real deal is announced.

At best spreading rumours is unhelpful and at worst it’s downright cruel.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 16:01
  #1069 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 513
Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
Rumour mill is active today. No compulsary redundancies for pilots but a 15% pay cut. Eek!
Will the pilots accept the reduction for all or insist on staff reductions with no pay cut for those who are left and will they have a choice?
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 16:52
  #1070 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: North London at last
Posts: 141

Absolutely. Some of us have heard rumours in the last couple of days.......but they are rumours. It is not helpful at all to pontificate on what might turn out to be crap, especially with BA management plants on this site watching and commenting.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 18:08
  #1071 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: on the golf course
Posts: 2,116
FFS Longtimer,

How can you ask that question when no proposal is on the table and no such question has been asked of the pilots?

Show some decorum, man
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 20:41
  #1072 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
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All we know at the moment is that as far as the pilots are concerned the company have floated Voluntary Redundancy...that's getting mixed reviews (just how much it floats your boat depends on personal circumstances), and are offering a variety of Part Time contracts - I'm still getting my head around the particularly imaginative concept of 87.5% Part Time Working .

Anyone claiming ATM that they have hard figures on percentage pay cuts, fleets being binned, numbers of compulsory redundancies, is just stirring things..it's not helpful..

Some of the idiots causing all sorts of grief and stress by mouthing off all sorts of fiction ("I heard from a friend of a trainer's dog") on various Whatsapp groups really really need to take hard look at themselves before they next put thumb to keyboard.....they are causing a lot of damage.
wiggy is online now  
Old 27th Jun 2020, 08:35
  #1073 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Thailand
Posts: 455
"The airline is believed to have been burning £20m a day while the vast majority of its fleet has been grounded".

So that 2Bn mentioned earlier is roughly 100 days.

And the Union are going to investors?

ChicoG is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2020, 17:46
  #1074 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 56

Amateur hour is appropriate when dealing with Unite and Balpa; the management might be acting out the script from dumb and dumber but they still have some way to go to reach the utter incompetence of the union leaders.
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 04:33
  #1075 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Thailand
Posts: 455
From the Currant Bun so who knows how accurate it is.

(Bloomberg) -- British Airways, a unit of International Consolidated Airlines Group, will cut 350 pilots and put another 300 in a “pool” for re-hire when needed as part of a deal reached with cockpit crew, The Sun reported.

Most of the pilots facing compulsory redundancies worked from Gatwick airport in London, according to the report, which didn’t say where the information came from. Captains and first officers who are placed in the pool don’t currently have an aircraft to work on and will remain on half-pay, while all other operating flight crew will take a 15% pay cut for now, it said.
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 05:50
  #1076 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: UK
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Doesn’t really add up for me - I guess this would cover the 747 retirements (if that is indeed correct) and maybe the odd 777 out of the fleet that moves from LGW, but where are the other 11000 jobs coming from?

It would sound that BAW are rowing back on their original plans and the old chestnut “not as bad as first feared”.
Dannyboy39 is online now  
Old 28th Jun 2020, 06:19
  #1077 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: UK
Posts: 18
This article is quite the fabrication. I'm not involved in the talks directly, but we have had the union tell us very clearly that the consultation has a long way to go and no deal has yet been made.
Besides, they have just announced a voluntary part time scheme and extended the VR window for a couple of weeks, so regardless of any "where there's smoke there's fire" no one yet has any idea on the numbers.

Pretty shoddy reporting on the basis of a single unconfirmed statement.
Link to the sun article: looks like i cant post an url until i get to 10 posts, but a quick Google search will reveal
White Van Driver is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2020, 07:22
  #1078 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2009
Location: somewhere in the middle
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The basis of this is a WhatsApp message that did the rounds a week or so ago, and was vaguely dismissed by BALPA as being bollocks (wasn’t the strongest denial I’ve ever seen however...)

Personally, and with no evidence whatsoever, I do think a deal has been agreed in principle, it probably has some elements from the above “deal”, and we are at the management (IAG?) sign off / legality check / how do we pitch it to members as a win stage.
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 13:17
  #1079 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2005
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There’s actually quite a disturbing message for Balpa members reading between the lines of that article if it’s accurate (which admittedly is a big if). “Pilot Union Balpa negotiators succeeded in their bid to ensure BA did not enact a ‘last in first out’ job loss policy”.

Now that definitely sounds like the reporter has got his facts muddled up until you consider “most of the cockpit crew facing compulsory redundancies worked from Gatwick Airport”. Have Balpa just sold out Gatwick in order to protect the Long Haul boys and girls?

Now most probably lazy journalism but if true then stand by for fireworks..
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 13:36
  #1080 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: London
Posts: 79
It sounds like they did, they defended LIFO, not the other way around. BA was most likely going after the top end and not the bottom. Good luck to them trying to gather support from junior members in future disputes, it’s utterly disgusting! Looking over the fence, in other airlines the BALPA reps are trying hard to ensure the pain is shared evenly, it’s sad to see how elitist the BA lot still are.
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