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UK government says no industry-wide bailout for aviation

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UK government says no industry-wide bailout for aviation

Old 26th Mar 2020, 10:31
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fortissimo View Post
The Govt response should be to provide support, less the X million operators insist they have to pay out as dividends. It will then be up to the shareholders to decide whether to go bust and lose all their dosh or put the dividends back into the business.

Just remember that "the shareholders" also include the pension funds of some/most all of us, would you have that plowed back in or are you merely venting at individual so called fat-cats?
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Old 26th Mar 2020, 10:48
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Some of you people are very deluded. Your flying days are over. Get used to it.
I'm about as pessimistic as it gets, but even for me your posts just seem like hysterical nonsense. There's no doubt aviation is going to suffer, the industry will contract. However, people will still be flying.
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Old 26th Mar 2020, 11:05
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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yep....people will still fly......but no where near as many as pre virus!
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Old 26th Mar 2020, 11:53
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by torvalds View Post
Absolutely correct and by law, they could summon a meeting of the board and decide on a bail-in (of the paid dividend).
That would require an EGM (Extraordinary General Meeting), not a board decision. remember, dividends are paid to ALL shareholders, your pension funds included.
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Old 26th Mar 2020, 12:07
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by waco View Post
yep....people will still fly......but no where near as many as pre virus!
I was due to travel to Frankfurt for a meeting next week. it will now be held on Zoom. If that proves satisfactory I expect we will do the same again in future.
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Old 26th Mar 2020, 12:29
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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result in January 2021....the UK will have no airlines, all the other countries will have subsidised airlines and will therefore take all of the UK air travel and cash out of the UK. So immediately that's 150,000 direct employees out of work, plus the tour operating employees of Jet2 and TUI.
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Old 26th Mar 2020, 12:31
  #67 (permalink)  
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Also used Zoom for the first time yesterday for a meeting. Far more productive. The future is Zoom.
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Old 26th Mar 2020, 12:35
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
I was due to travel to Frankfurt for a meeting next week. it will now be held on Zoom. If that proves satisfactory I expect we will do the same again in future.
That is the crux of it. This will go on for an extended period of time, which will cause temporary behaviours such as the one you mention to evolve into business best practice going forwards. In the long term, demand for premium air travel will almost certainly reduce due to current events, regardless of how the economy shapes up. Popular opinion on climate change, and unnecessary squandering of non-renewable energy sources will reinforce these behavioural changes.
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Old 26th Mar 2020, 12:36
  #69 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by clipstone1 View Post
result in January 2021....the UK will have no airlines, all the other countries will have subsidised airlines and will therefore take all of the UK air travel and cash out of the UK. So immediately that's 150,000 direct employees out of work, plus the tour operating employees of Jet2 and TUI.
So should the government bail out Easyjet plc or just Easyjet UK leaving it to the Swiss and Austrians to bail out the other parts of the Easyjet empire?


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Old 26th Mar 2020, 12:48
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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with all my direct family in Australia, I am actually looking at booking now for xmas 2020, on the basis if the travel restrictions have been lifted its a good deal, if not they'll need to refund my cash. If the airline has ceased trading by then, the credit card will refund me the money....very little risk to it.
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Old 26th Mar 2020, 12:50
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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LTN MAN - if your argument is to be followed, the UK Government should not bail out BA, the Spanish government should?
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Old 26th Mar 2020, 12:56
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by golfbananajam View Post
That would require an EGM (Extraordinary General Meeting), not a board decision. remember, dividends are paid to ALL shareholders, your pension funds included.
Thank you for providing clarity on this matter.
Does it mean it could've been done?

I've noticed that you mentioned earlier (and now) the pension funds. Does it mean I can choose now any random "company" stock and "invest" all my money in it and as long as a pension fund is also an investor my return will be granted for life, because of we are going to keep those companies liquid for ever?
I am sure many of us interested in such game and going to cut back on the lottery. If a stock can only go up without any risk, then sure, please count me in.
TSLA stock "grew" ~300% between 22nd of October 2019 and 19th of February 2020. Now it is a "bit" down (only 100+% up since 22nd of Oct), but I am sure there are pension funds invested in it, so I am standing by and waiting for your answer.



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Old 26th Mar 2020, 13:04
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by golfbananajam View Post
That would require an EGM (Extraordinary General Meeting), not a board decision. remember, dividends are paid to ALL shareholders, your pension funds included.
Do you KNOW that to be the case? I was pretty close to BP at the time the dividend was cancelled with just days to go to the dividend payment, and I don't recall an EGM, and it was a unilateral board decision.
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Old 26th Mar 2020, 13:19
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by waco View Post
I feel the essential truth is being forgotten.

Providing we can beat this virus and its following waves of infection.

The economic situation is likely to be similar to 1929......only worse.

Who on earth do you think will be going flying.

I'm quite sure the Government has worked out there is no point in pouring vast sums into airlines that wont be able to survive anyway. Its pointless.

Some of you people are very deluded. Your flying days are over. Get used to it.
I remember that sort of nonsense being bandied about after 911 and again after the financial crisis.

Yes, there will be a reset, but you are talking about the entire civil aviation business going to the wall. Airports, manufacturing and everything that it supports.
Not going to happen.
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Old 26th Mar 2020, 14:13
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by clipstone1 View Post
LTN MAN - if your argument is to be followed, the UK Government should not bail out BA, the Spanish government should?
Well the argument is that with these multinational groups with diverse ownership patterns then if the airline cannot survive the Government should just nationalise the UK part.
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Old 26th Mar 2020, 14:44
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
I remember that sort of nonsense being bandied about after 911 and again after the financial crisis.

Yes, there will be a reset, but you are talking about the entire civil aviation business going to the wall. Airports, manufacturing and everything that it supports.
Not going to happen.
I think it will take longer for things to get back to normal than it did post 9/11,
I would assume that business travel will rebound fairly quickly but the holiday/leisure market will take quite a bit longer. There's just not going to be enough spare cash in the pot for the likes of Barry and Sharon to go and soak up the Spanish culture at the Red Lion in Benidorm for a week or two.
The first companies to feel this will probably be those providing ACMI services such as Smartlynx, HiFly, Air Belgium etc. Up till now due to the problems with the B737 MAX and the B787 they've been doing well but this will have come to an end.
On the maintenance side, we're only working on cargo aircraft at the moment but things will get better, in fact we generally get busier if an airline goes bankrupt, someone has to do the bridging checks before the aircraft go to a new operator, that's assuming that there will be new operators !
As for a government bail out, there's no easy answer, how many airlines are 100% owned in one country ? Not many, so it would be very difficult to allocate the funds where they're needed.
However, the infrastructure needs to be kept in place so I don't see any problem assisting airports, ground handling services etc.
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Old 26th Mar 2020, 15:10
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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The big difference between now and 9/11 is that after 9/11 most of the economy was intact - when we come out of this great swathes of the economy will have disappeared. The unemployment numbers coming out of the US are truly horrific with forecasts of 40 million job loses by April if the shutdown continues.
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Old 26th Mar 2020, 15:19
  #78 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by clipstone1 View Post
with all my direct family in Australia, I am actually looking at booking now for xmas 2020, on the basis if the travel restrictions have been lifted its a good deal, if not they'll need to refund my cash. If the airline has ceased trading by then, the credit card will refund me the money....very little risk to it.
No Insurance cover for corona virus related issues including medical.
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Old 26th Mar 2020, 16:40
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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I came across two of my neighbours preparing to peddle off somewhere on their bikes when I drove past (going to top fields before you ask). I stopped to see how they were doing, as both retired (ex Headmaster and his Partner Retired Head of Legal for large council) both on Gold plated pensions, with houses in Spain and apartment in Paris. They made the comment was how "nice it was that there were no aircraft around as you could hear more bird song". I gently pointed out that we are not really that close to any airports, and planes tend to go over us in excess of ten thousand feet if heading for LBA or MAN (very few), with other,s up in the high 30,s, and that my pension was far more reliant on all those planes flying than was there,s is, and I would like them all back ASAP. This was met with "but can you not hear all the birds singing" to which I had to gently point out that it is spring, and they tend to sing more at this time of year for obvious reasons, and this a headmaster !
Anyway as far as Sallyanne comment on Zoom etc we use them a lot as a company, and personally have been using video conferencing since late 80,s when you needed video conferencing suites to do it, but I was still doing a minimum of 2 transatlantic s a month regardless, as people want to interact with you, and know you, and watching a monitor does not appear to work as well as the makers and suppliers would like because we are human. Therefore I do think Business travel will come back, but leisure maybe a little slower, and more so at the lower end of the market as that section of society will financially hurt the most as ever. Personally we have already got two LH holidays planned for later this year, and I have 6 LH Business trips assuming we get back into work in late May. All this assumes of course that we do not die in the Corona virus outbreak, but I work on controlling the controllable and not worry unduly about things I have little control off , and I went through SARS in Hong Kong, so this is my second time through this type of thing, and no it does not make it any easier. As an aside I would say the UK attempts at control are far worse than those in Hong Kong, not enough public sanitise-rs on public transport / stations etc probably get stolen in UK in current climate !.
Kind regards
Mr Mac

Last edited by Mr Mac; 28th Mar 2020 at 15:21.
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Old 26th Mar 2020, 18:42
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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I must say cir-cum is a very funny word.

Jokes aside, this industry will contract, as many industries will and have done. It's going to be a very sad few years, but I can't help but feel some people in this industry are terribly entitled. At least this industry has a healthy underlying trend (you're not miners in the 80s!).

Any government help will be appreciated, but we can't take it for granted one bit. It was only a few weeks ago that EZY, BA & FR were moaning about rescuing flybe not being fair. Not that all the 1000s of employees deserve to pay for the sins of the greedy executives.
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