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Future of the Airlines.

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Future of the Airlines.

Old 28th Mar 2020, 04:25
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Originally Posted by Anti Skid On View Post
Too many questions within your original comment

Boeing, I think you are correct.

The A380 should survive or heavy traffic routes. The problem is volume -v- frequency; do consumers want 2 x 500 seat aircraft per day, or a schedule that has 4 x 250 seat aircraft? Can all international routes be daily services?

The A350 is a far better aircraft IMHO than the 787, in terms of range, fuel efficiency and passenger space, and with all the goings on within Boeing it should become more popular - and how far off is the A330 neo?

The other thing is with climate change will more short haul routes be overtaken by high speed rail? Maybe not in the US, but possibly in Europe.

Will people return to coach trips? Really, everyone lives for their cars.
High speed rail requires a lot of electricity which will probably come from a steam plant so maybe it's inimical to the airlines as a result of convience nothing to do with the environment....just my opinion tho....who knows
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Old 28th Mar 2020, 04:30
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Agreed Bookings.com have been and continue to be excellent. Well done to them.Reference International airlines it is good to hear that at least one “flag carrier” is supporting its customers and nationals. My experience is that many have cut and run for cover with an option to rebook in the future or eventually giving a refund not much good in the present circumstances and I hope their actions will not be forgotten in the future if ever we return to normal.
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Old 28th Mar 2020, 04:46
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Originally Posted by kpd View Post
I think there will be a trust problem with the airlines when this all finishes - look at the people trying to get home now and how they are being treated- from Irish Independent"John Spollen, the soft spoken president of the Irish Travel Agents Association, describes what has happened since the outbreak of coronavirus as a "Wild West of aviation" as airlines have abandoned their customers and ignored their rights."

Emirates is giving refunds but only from 12 months out. Customers have a year to make their mind up, and after that if they still want a refund, it will give you the refund.

Not much use if you need the refund to fly home now"

Not to blame Emirates alone- many other airlines doing the same- even BA will refund in 4-6 weeks when THEY cancel.
But this doesn't help people getting home now as could hardly be regarded as good PR for the airlines. This does not criticise the staff who work for them but I do worry that this is bad publicity for the industry and will slow a return of normal travel
Had my refund from BA within 5 days, they had said 10-14 days when the flights were cancelled.
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Old 28th Mar 2020, 08:27
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QATAR Airways appear to be one of the better airlines to have been booked with during this crisis and are trying to maintain some form of network so people can at least get home.
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Old 28th Mar 2020, 09:32
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Originally Posted by krismiler View Post
QATAR Airways appear to be one of the better airlines to have been booked with during this crisis and are trying to maintain some form of network so people can at least get home.
Part of their reason for continuing is to establish an advantage in reputation over Etihad and Emirates, which the UAE has forced to shut down.
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Old 28th Mar 2020, 20:31
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My experience with Delta was pretty good. I was supposed to be flying to Washington DC tomorrow with the wife. Looks like the flight is still going, but not only are we both in groups considered to be 'high risk', pretty much everything we were planning to do in DC isn't happening. I'd used a highly restricted 'companion ticket' to get a great fare - round trip Seattle to Dulles for two in first class, for just over $1,000. Delta waived all the restrictions and I was able to reschedule everything to September (hoping this has largely blown over by then) at no charge. My only complain was that I couldn't change it on-line - I had to call, and when I got through after waiting on hold for about 10 minutes I was told to call a different number that wasn't listed on the website. But I got through immediately using the new phone number, and the agent couldn't have been more helpful.
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 16:17
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There is hope - saw this AVIANCA B 787 climbing out from Munich yesterday.
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 16:45
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Originally Posted by krismiler View Post
QATAR Airways appear to be one of the better airlines to have been booked with during this crisis and are trying to maintain some form of network so people can at least get home.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...s-out-12587596
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Old 30th Mar 2020, 00:12
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Originally Posted by ZFT View Post
I will state Booking.com have been excellent.
Agreed, and also Hotels.com except in a couple of noticeable cases where the property simply collected because our cancellation was already within the "no free cancel" period. Haven't yet tried calling Hotels.com to get that reversed in those cases, but have little hope.

Earlier this month we realised we had to can a five week trip to Central America and Cuba. Two airlines - American and Avianca, agreed to refunds without hassle - easy process, good result. Cubana refunded after deducting a fee, fair enough I guess. Alaska simply walked away with our money. Quite a few, like Copa, had awful comms and eventually - after cancelling flights - offered us credits for 12 to 18 months - which would be acceptable if we had confidence the airline would still be around to honour the debt. May need to call the card company about those.

One or two accommodation and activity providers we'd booked with directly handled things badly, most were great. We will remember.

If you hold any airmiles that can be readily spent on non-aviation products right now, I'd advise spending them. You're an unsecured creditor.
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Old 30th Mar 2020, 02:51
  #30 (permalink)  
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The three year long blockade of Qatar and the loss of important regional destinations, together with the additional costs of extended routings around nearby countries have had an impact on the airlines finances even before this pandemic. With a loss of US$639 million for the financial year ending 31 March 2019, and this FY likely to be much worse (even though the flight cancellations only affect a few weeks of it), together with the certainty of massive further losses next FY even if a cure for the virus is found tomorrow, the future is far from clear.

With no domestic routes, restrictions on countries nearby and little origin/destination traffic the airline is almost totally reliant on connecting flights through Doha which puts it in a very weak position. Many airlines enjoy a domestic network and a market for which their country is either the origin or destination, enabling them to charge a premium for non stop flights during high season and switch to being a hub for connecting traffic during the low season.

As a long haul premium hub airline, recovery is likely to be delayed, the domestic and regional low cost airlines will be the first to benefit when things pick up again. It's a real pity as I always enjoyed flying on Qatar Airways and found their fares to be very reasonable compared to similar competition. They certainly deserved their 5* rating.

With the country mainly reliant on oil and gas, the prices of which are likely to remain depressed for the near future, attention turns to the reserves. Basically how much is in the kitty, the degree of liquidity (not easy to get a good price selling a luxury hotel at the moment) and the willingness of the government to pour in money.

Cathay Pacific and Singapore Airlines are integral to their city states and have to be kept going. CX may well be taken over by Air China and SIA is receiving a government bail out. QR may not be so fortunate. The unmentionable airline nearby shows that a government's willingness to keep on pouring billions of dollars into a black hole can't be taken for granted. CX and SIA are ingrained into the economies of Hong Kong and Singapore and are responsible for jobs in other sectors such as tourism, the net economic effect is significant in these cities.

Whereas Singapore without SIA is unthinkable, Qatar without QR as a major world airline isn't. Without a sustained recovery soon and significant state backing, QR is likely to end up like Saudi Arabian Airlines or Kuwait Airways. ie much smaller and catering primarily to locals and migrant workers rather than a major hub and spoke airline.
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Old 30th Mar 2020, 03:09
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I'm glad some airlines are being good about it. I had a flight to Gatwick on Westjet in April and they, righfully, cancelled the flight but are only giving travel credit. I have wasted too much time with them on this already. If I need to go to small claims court I will, and I will also make sure to never fly them again. They and Air Canada are both bully airlines. My next flight to London may very well be on KLM via Amsterdam. I do not care if it is longer, the cost is the same and the experience is better.

TME
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Old 30th Mar 2020, 04:16
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Originally Posted by PeterWeb View Post
Two airlines - American and Avianca, agreed to refunds without hassle - easy process, good result. Cubana refunded after deducting a fee, fair enough I guess. Alaska simply walked away with our money.

If you hold any airmiles that can be readily spent on non-aviation products right now, I'd advise spending them. You're an unsecured creditor.
Have you contacted Alaska directly? Their customer service is generally very good, and their website says:
No change/cancellation fees for travel through May 31, 2020. View the details.
(although in most cases you're talking credit for a future flight, not an outright refund)

If the airline is still around, they won't kill their air miles - the last thing they want to do is alienate their best customers. Of course is the airline goes away all bets are off.
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Old 30th Mar 2020, 05:11
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Originally Posted by tdracer View Post
Have you contacted Alaska directly?
Not as yet, but since you mention it I will give it a try. Our flights were booked last year and canceled by me on March 10 when we saw governments starting to close borders. One of the flights was due only three days later. Their website process merely acknowledged what I'd done and I presumed that was that, since at that time the cancellation wasn't of their making.

If the airline is still around, they won't kill their air miles - the last thing they want to do is alienate their best customers. Of course is the airline goes away all bets are off.
Yes indeed on both counts.
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Old 30th Mar 2020, 06:29
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Pretty much everybody here in Ontario is in stay-at-home mode unless they work in an essential
business. So, I'm sitting at home. All well, but sitting at home nonetheless.

Some months ago, the Mrs. YYZjim scheduled our next cruise - departing from Vancouver in mid-
June. Looks like we had better cancel, even if social distancing is relaxed before then.

I believe everyone is going to catch COVID-19 sooner or later. The best place to suffer
through it is at home, near familiar hospitals, and not in some far-off land. It seems foolish
to catch it while en route somewhere else.

If other vacationers think like me, it's going to take a long time before planes fill up.

Tip: Don't book your plane tickets until after you've booked the virus.

YYZjim
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Old 30th Mar 2020, 14:48
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I had a flight to Gatwick on Westjet in April and they, righfully, cancelled the flight but are only giving travel credit.
Probably claim through your CC company.
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Old 30th Mar 2020, 17:35
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Not sure it will come down to trust

I don't think it will come down to trust A lot seem to be having trouble dealing with this.

Qantas left us stranded in Japan, thank you Alan Joyce, and trying to get hold of Qantas has been impossible. We bought new tickets to get home. Cost us 7.5k in lost accomdation and new flights. It's the price gouging that cheeses me off the most.

But I focus on the way Qantas treats not just us customers but their staff as well who have lost their jobs. Would love to know what Alan is doing with the bailout money from the government. Sure isn't going to staff or customers.
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Old 30th Mar 2020, 19:29
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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/...ectid=12321018

"Covid 19 coronavirus: Air New Zealand slashes jobs, Greg Foran lays it on the line
"In that light, it is clear the Air New Zealand which emerges from Covid-19 is a much smaller airline and could take years to get back to its former size. Therefore, we are planning to be a domestic airline with limited international services to keep supply lines open for the foreseeable future.""

Last edited by Chris2303; 31st Mar 2020 at 05:05.
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Old 31st Mar 2020, 00:10
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Originally Posted by Chris2303 View Post
"Therefore, we [Air New Zealand] are planning to be a domestic airline with limited international services to keep supply lines open for the foreseeable future."
Yes, already a majority-government-owned airline and few will be surprised if it is even more so by the time the pandemic subsides. As some have already said, it's entirely possible that most of those left standing will be in the same boat.
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Old 31st Mar 2020, 06:48
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Flights ex New Zealand

Good news from New Zealand for people trying to get to the UK. Malaysian have just scheduled about 10 flights in April Auckland KL tech stop but no deplaning and on to Heathrow at a sensible price rather than that rip off airline whose name I will not mention who have been charging the most outrageous prices ex. New Zealand to return to the UK. Well done Malaysian you have the support and appreciation of all of us stuck in New Zealand in bringing at last some competition back to the market. Thank you
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Old 31st Mar 2020, 08:19
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Originally Posted by navstar1 View Post
Good news from New Zealand for people trying to get to the UK. Malaysian have just scheduled about 10 flights in April Auckland KL tech stop but no deplaning and on to Heathrow at a sensible price rather than that rip off airline whose name I will not mention who have been charging the most outrageous prices ex. New Zealand to return to the UK. Well done Malaysian you have the support and appreciation of all of us stuck in New Zealand in bringing at last some competition back to the market. Thank you
Please name and shame! Was it Qatar?
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