Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Virgin Atlantic

Old 6th Jun 2020, 16:31
  #501 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: in my own world
Posts: 134
Count Von Altibar Quotes:

Looks like the A330 doesn't feature in the recovery plan after all. it's going to be B787/A350 only and if you're not on one of those types it's looking very dodgy unless you happen to be in the top 90 of the seniority list. A total bloodbath for the pilots at Virgin Atlantic seems to be the most severe reaction plan so far from airline management. Let's hope the virus weakens and scientists discover a vaccine soon maybe then things pickup in aviation and people will be offered their jobs back.
Yet again you're talking utter bo!!ox.

VAA are planning on 10 A330s when the market allows, and they have put on hold a number of A350 orders along with the NEOs due next year. Yes, times are so difficult for the pilots not in the 'safe zone' (along with many airlines). It really doesn't need false reporting from trolls like you who have only a small percentage of the information.

Looking back at your previous post from old, it looks like you applied for VAA and didn't get in...I wonder why?
xray one is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2020, 17:10
  #502 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: on a blue balloon
Posts: 339
B744IRE

"A full B747-400 to Orlando has the same operating cost as an A330"
from the ad agency that brought you WIZZO WASHES WHITER
oldchina is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2020, 17:41
  #503 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Europe
Posts: 148
Same cost

I don't think so..............10T/hr @ .86 vs 6T/hr @ .82
Maxfli is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2020, 18:01
  #504 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: London
Posts: 3
Originally Posted by oldchina View Post
B744IRE
"A full B747-400 to Orlando has the same operating cost as an A330"
Is this a per passenger calculation? And does it take into account cargo?
peacheyglobes is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2020, 23:51
  #505 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: London
Posts: 116
Not going to pretend itís all roses .
Virgin have completely destroyed seniority and any loyalty ! No more 750hrs , min rest downroute etc....
just awful ! And by the looks of things the whole U.K. industry has taken a downturn! I used to commute and that was the only viable option ! Change of career me thinks ....... (donít even care if I get kept on or not the new hours will literally kill you over 10 years )

Riskybis is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2020, 07:28
  #506 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Brexland
Posts: 84
Could you elaborate further for those on the outside?
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Old 7th Jun 2020, 08:28
  #507 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Bed
Posts: 202
I don’t really think that it’s needs elaborating for others to comment on from the outside for their pleasure. Give it time as people are losing an awful lot across all the airline industry, pilots CC engineers and so on
sangiovese. is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2020, 09:03
  #508 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Brexland
Posts: 84
I respectfully disagree, I take no pleasure out of any of this but keeping it private is helping nobody but Virign management.
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Old 7th Jun 2020, 09:59
  #509 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: this side of the moon
Posts: 39
of course you are trying to find some kind of pleasure from hoping other airlines suffer, standard jet2 ism.
Why can’t you lot just accept this is affecting all companies and quit the one upmanship.
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Old 7th Jun 2020, 13:36
  #510 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Brexland
Posts: 84
Absolutely ridiculous comment, sounds like you must get the same disastrous PR training as your hero Branson. Best of luck to all pilots in these times. ✌️
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 11:37
  #511 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Earth
Posts: 209
This week many Virgin staff find out if they are at risk or being made redundant.

Not a good week and best of luck to all of those affected.
turbine100 is offline  
Old 11th Jun 2020, 22:27
  #512 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,230
Unhappy tidings delivered today to a great many good people at Virgin Atlantic, particularly on the 747 fleet.

42 senior people took voluntary severance recently, and their actions will undoubtedly have saved an equivalent number of jobs for those further down the seniority list. It's disappointing to see that more than a few, many with very little time left to run, cannot find a similarly altruistic trait within themselves. Despite the significant benefits enjoyed over a great many years and pension pots long since hitting the lifetime maximum allowance - so a modest sacrifice, in the wider scheme - their decision to remain today has left others with far greater dependence on their income without a job or livelihood tomorrow.

My abiding memory from a management role in another airline at the height of the 2008/9 downturn was of a small pilot cadre coming in to see me one day with a clear message. Hugely experienced and excellent operators all, they said that if redundancies were to become necessary in the airline, I should simply say so and they would resign there and then. They said they had had their time; reaped the benefits of a long career in aviation and were still flying because they enjoyed it; but would never ever stay if it meant putting colleagues out of a job, denting their careers and leaving them unable to support their families. I did not have to take up their offer, but their words have remained with me since. I simply wish that those who are able to make that same sacrifice today (and, for many reasons, it is not a universal ability based purely on age) could live up to that example. Many have, and for those who have been able to do so, it will be to their eternal credit.

Last edited by Flightrider; 11th Jun 2020 at 22:37.
Flightrider is offline  
Old 12th Jun 2020, 06:58
  #513 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Uk
Posts: 27
So sorry to hear of Job losses. Fingers crossed the good times arnt too far away..

Has there at least been a re-hire type agreement if things pick up quicker than expected?
Bravo Zulu is offline  
Old 12th Jun 2020, 07:05
  #514 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Shoreham
Age: 68
Posts: 34
Flightrider has ASSUMED the senior pilots have got huge pension pots but after years of adding 10% to the 15% my pot was nowhere near the figures he quotes. ASSUMING they have reached the maximum...what pension does that buy in the current climate? You will be shocked. I have just had a statement from my drawdown pension provider to inform me my pot has dropped 35%. You might ASSUME I could sell the house and reduce my overheads but my family want to stay put...so I am still working at 68 and enjoying it...retirement sucks.
B744IRE is offline  
Old 12th Jun 2020, 08:51
  #515 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Uk
Posts: 4
Taking vr if able

I read it differently in that those who did take the vr should be applauded. That shouldn’t necessarily be taken as a slur on all those that didn’t.

Flightrider suggested that only those that were able, to consider it, since as you’ve pointed out everyone’s circumstance is different regardless of age/rank. I agree with you it’s quite shocking how little an apparent healthy pension pot will actually provide.

More generally we are going through a strange time of wider baseless indignation and maybe a calmer approach would serve us all better..
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Old 12th Jun 2020, 10:22
  #516 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: jersey
Age: 70
Posts: 1,238
I applaud such people, but every case is different. At the end of the day everyone must do what needs to be done from their viewpoint. Every viewpoint is different. What can be done is a massive joint effort with maximum co-operation & commitment between management & staff designed to keep as many as possible in a job. Extremely difficult, I know. I could add the Government to that.

Last edited by kcockayne; 12th Jun 2020 at 10:26. Reason: extra comment
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Old 12th Jun 2020, 10:35
  #517 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: LONDON England
Age: 48
Posts: 268
Sad times

Flightrider

Learned to fly with many at Virgin and on the 747. Devastating times. Seen this situation before but in a separate organisation , it’s sad that those people close to the finish line don’t hand the baton over before the finishing line. Good luck to all at VS.
autothrottle is offline  
Old 12th Jun 2020, 19:00
  #518 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 513
Seems to me that those who worked many years etc and are now close to their needed finish line should carry on and reach it. Stopping short does nothing for them and likely not a heck of a lot for those wanting to fill their vacancies (I bet there are 10 times more waiting in line than there are pilots who can afford to step aside early).
Longtimer is offline  
Old 12th Jun 2020, 21:53
  #519 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 542
The fairly comprehensive proposal for redundancies mentions possible down grades, one assumes when/if things pick up they will be the first be to reinstated to their old ranks, i.e. SFO back to Captain etc etc . How does this work if a person ha just done an A350 course and was for instance previously on the 747 or 787?
Are there any plans to keep people in the "pool" current or just swimming until the climate changes?
By all accounts difficult times for both management and crew.
Kirks gusset is offline  
Old 13th Jun 2020, 07:43
  #520 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Sunnydale
Posts: 167
Originally Posted by Kirks gusset View Post
By all accounts difficult times for both management and crew.
Difficult times for management? I just spat out my weetabix I laughed so hard. Itís every single Christmas, New Year, Easter, Birthday, Hanukkah and tooth fairy come at once for management in the aviation industry. Permanently trash Tís and Cís and make those remaining so grateful for a job that they wouldnít dare kick up a fuss for years to come.
back to Boeing is online now  

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