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There Goes Transatlantic Air Travel.

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

There Goes Transatlantic Air Travel.

Old 12th Mar 2020, 09:12
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Doors to Automatic
I have heard from a source at BA that some of their 380s are flying around with 300 empty seats on some UK-USA sectors. This has probably just increased that to 400!
Who knows, they can still fly freely to the US, unlike the airlines from Schengen states. And since nobody tracks someone entering the UK with their ID card, something that is common and still possible from Europe, it allows an easy way to circumvent the US travel ban for europeans from the Schengen Area. Most probably do not realise that yet, but certainly a possibility.
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Old 12th Mar 2020, 09:28
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ReturningVector
It is for the same reason Italy went in lockdown when the virus was already wreaking havoc: To spread the number of sick people over a longer time.

That way you will have a less intense ‘peak’ that puts a burden on the medical infrastructure.

It is not so stupid as you might think, it is the way to go according to experts. You will not stop the virus, most people will get sick, but spreading it over a longer time helps in relieving the pressure on your hospitals and clinics somewhat.
It would make sense if it was part of a consistent strategy of minimising travel generally both within the US and from all countries with a substantial infection rate outside the US. As it stands it makes no sense at all. The best indicator of what is really happening is to look at national deaths as they are less likely to be influenced by the prevelance and effectiveness of testing. The US has on this measure has one of the higher incidences already and most but not all european countries have a lower incidence. It makes no sense at all to exclude the UK. This is all about politics and creating the appearance of action rather than public health.
Trump being Trump he use sthe opportunity to attack those he feels offended by at the same time.
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Old 12th Mar 2020, 09:33
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Eutychus
How does this work for pilots of any provenance, please? Does the ban not apply if they stay airside?
Pilots will not be needed during this period. I am sure most if not all European airlines (BA except MAYBE) will shut down their US operation.
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Old 12th Mar 2020, 09:53
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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I just checked on Air France and Lufthansa website, you can still book a flight during the ´ban’ period.
I have my reccurent booked in April in the USA...
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Old 12th Mar 2020, 10:00
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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RTE reports the ban also does not apply to the Irish Republic, which is in the EU and not UK.
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Old 12th Mar 2020, 10:01
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Ireland is not in Schengen either so is exempt
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Old 12th Mar 2020, 10:16
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Presidential edict - 'close the stable door, but leave the window open for fresh air'.

'Nothing to fear but fear alone'; some administrations may manipulate fear, but to what purpose.
Better to provide a positive view; not a list of 'cases' and 'deaths' (fatality rate), state the number of recoveries. This value is 'cases' - 'deaths', a much higher value, but of little political or media value.
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Old 12th Mar 2020, 11:11
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Eutychus
How does this work for pilots of any provenance, please? Does the ban not apply if they stay airside?
As DaveReidUK cited above there is an exemption for crewmembers:

Section 1. Suspension and Limitation on Entry.

The entry into the United States, as immigrants or nonimmigrants, of all aliens who were physically present within the Schengen Area during the 14-day period preceding their entry or attempted entry into the United States is hereby suspended and limited subject to section 2 of this proclamation.

Sec. 2. Scope of Suspension and Limitation on Entry.

(a) Section 1 of this proclamation shall not apply to:

(vii) any alien traveling as a nonimmigrant pursuant to a C-1, D, or C-1/D nonimmigrant visa as a crewmember or any alien otherwise traveling to the United States as air or sea crew;
The situation will probably invoke force majeure clauses in U.S. pilot contracts as it did after 9-11 in 2001 and SARS in 2003. Force Majeure is one of those aviation technical terms like 'writ of replevin' and 'unsecured creditor'.
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Old 12th Mar 2020, 11:42
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Norwegian shares down 30% today...
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Old 12th Mar 2020, 11:48
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Re C-1/D Visa: do you just have to hold such a visa to be allowed in or do you actually have to operate a flight into the US to make use of the C-1/D. I got a B-1/B-2 alongside my C-1/D and just to cancel my flights as passenger through the US.
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Old 12th Mar 2020, 13:10
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EatMyShorts!
Re C-1/D Visa: do you just have to hold such a visa to be allowed in or do you actually have to operate a flight into the US to make use of the C-1/D. I got a B-1/B-2 alongside my C-1/D and just to cancel my flights as passenger through the US.
I am pretty sure that if you pax in, you have to use your B1/B2, we get that next to our C1/D, specially for the purpose of positioning on other carriers .

The exemption apparently is only for C1/D, don’t think you are going to get in unnoticed😉
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Old 12th Mar 2020, 14:47
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It's a mostly open border and as has been proven in the past 2 years (people fleeing the US) it is easy to sneak across.
but here is an article:

Trump's Europe travel ban poses questions for Canada-U.S. border

James McCartenThe Canadian PressPublished Thursday, March 12, 2020 4:39AM EDT https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...rder-1.4849675
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Old 12th Mar 2020, 14:55
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Luckily, Trumpy doesn’t have golf courses in the Schengen area. Only the UK and Ireland. Boy, that was lucky.
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Old 12th Mar 2020, 15:32
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Longtimer
It's a mostly open border and as has been proven in the past 2 years (people fleeing the US) it is easy to sneak across.
but here is an article:
Flying to Canada and then onto the States will not be a practial option for most people. It is not really that easy to sneak into the US over the Canadian border for the average person. If you show up at a border crossing with an passport from any of the countries involved you will almost certainly be questioned and likely refused entry.

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Old 12th Mar 2020, 16:11
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Originally Posted by 20driver
Flying to Canada and then onto the States will not be a practial option for most people. It is not really that easy to sneak into the US over the Canadian border for the average person. If you show up at a border crossing with an passport from any of the countries involved you will almost certainly be questioned and likely refused entry.
A large number of "average" people did so in the past 2 years . https://irb-cisr.gc.ca/en/statistics...tatistics.aspx
https://www.timesunion.com/news/arti...S-14095175.php
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Old 12th Mar 2020, 16:29
  #56 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by marchino61
I would imagine that the UK will now have to stamp the passports of visitors from Schengen countries. Otherwise they will have no way to prove to the US authorities that they left Schengen at least 14 days prior.

And it does not apply to cargo.
Except that we can enter the UK with our ID cards which physically look just like driver's licences or credit cards. Hard to stamp.
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Old 12th Mar 2020, 16:34
  #57 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by threep
To restrict international travel is not necessarily the wrong thing to do. Whether this is right measure at the right time is a question for the experts. To blame the virus on the EU, and then omit the UK from the travel restrictions when we are probably no more than 3 or 4 days behind France, Germany, Spain in terms of this outbreak is illogical and sounds very Trump. There must always be a scapegoat and today its the EU. I fear for the US in this pandemic, without a consistent, top-down, expert & evidence-led set of public health decisions, the US will have the greatest death rate in the developed world.
If you look at the fatalities, the UK is right with the pack. Confirmed infections don't give you the right idea since different countries have had vastly different testing capability and willingness to test everyone around known infected people.
https://www.usnews.com/news/health-n...n-virus-deaths
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Old 12th Mar 2020, 16:53
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Here is an update my daughter has just been sent in PRG. I was going to try to get her to swap out the LHR-JFK leg to LHR-PIT, but that won't be possible as they have to fly into certain airports. (I'm retyping this from a screenshot she sent me from her iPhone, bolding is mine.)

Following the announcement from President Trump concerning the 30-day suspension of travel from Europe to the U.S., the Department of Homeland Security released a clarifying statement regarding the exceptions to the ban indicating, "This does not apply to legal permanent residents, (generally) immediate family members of U.S. citizens, and other individuals who are identified in the proclamation." While the ban does exempt American citizens and permanent residents, the acting Secretary added, "In the next 48 hours, in the interest of public health, I intend to issue a supplemental Notice of Arrivals Restriction requiring U.S. passengers that have been in the Schengen Area to travel through select airports where the U.S. Government has implemented enhanced screening procedures."
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Old 12th Mar 2020, 17:24
  #59 (permalink)  
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Cyprus is not on the list and not in the Schengen area but in the EU.
Does this mean you can travel from Cyprus via connecting airport not on this list to the USA?
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Old 12th Mar 2020, 17:38
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ReturningVector
It is for the same reason Italy went in lockdown when the virus was already wreaking havoc: To spread the number of sick people over a longer time.

That way you will have a less intense ‘peak’ that puts a burden on the medical infrastructure.

It is not so stupid as you might think, it is the way to go according to experts. You will not stop the virus, most people will get sick, but spreading it over a longer time helps in relieving the pressure on your hospitals and clinics somewhat.
This is explained via the link below


The idea is that reducing the peak load on the health services they will not break down.
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