UK to Leave EASA

[Hadley Rille]

Originally Posted by Gordomac

LANDFLAP - Agree with all. I am a bit more simplistic and will also write to the new UK CAA requesting my degree to read ; UK ATPL-Oxon"

I like it. Get a PPL(Oxon) and seven years later they send you an ATPL(Oxon) in the post.

[clackerbag]

Originally Posted by torvalds

In the light of these awesome/intelligent daily-political outbursts and grandstanding, is it sensible to start now an ATPL ground training in the UK, or better to find an ATO in the EU and distance learning?

Bristol Ground School have their ATO through the IAA and offer the ability to sit Austro Control exams (rather than UK CAA exams) on site. Form my experience only a very small number of people are sitting the CAA exams now.

[Fortissimo]

Originally Posted by SAM 2M

UK was a leading world class Safety Regulator long before EASA was born.

In the long term the CAA will no doubt cope. The question right now is how long it will take the CAA to develop its capacity to regulate effectively across the full range of activity, including State of Design responsibilities and the like. That means putting in place the resources, the processes and the people. And for the regulation to be credible and acceptable to other parties, the people will need to be suitably qualified and experienced - they do not grow on trees and are not likely to come flocking to the door at Gatwick just to be paid peanuts.

Unless the Govt decides to put in some funding, the resourcing position will probably get worse. Besides the impact of the Coronavirus contraction, you could not blame an ATO for deciding to stay under the EASA umbrella, issue EASA licences and have its new pilots destined for UK operators pay to transfer their new EASA licence. Over 7000 UK ATPL holders have transferred their licences offshore since all this started. The CAA will get no income from licensing work for these people and will have to raise charges elsewhere, which will increase the financial burden at individual and organisational levels and drive even more away. Airbus has already indicated that it might need to transfer its manufacturing capability out of the UK, probably to the benefit of France and Germany, to avoid the needless complications of 3rd country involvement in certification and airworthiness assurance. So no revenue there either. And what of the MROs who rely on a mix of UK and EASA work to survive? Another expensive twin-track system? How many UK AOCs will start to transfer assets to EASA MS registers?

Despite statements here that the UK will continue to operate within the EASA system until the end of the transition period (see the CAA Brexit site), the European Commission has already (in Jan) directed the removal of UK CAA staff from all EASA decision-making or decision-shaping bodies, apparently in response to UK Govt noise about a hard line for negotiating (or not) the final Brexit arrangements. The CAA says it will recognise all EASA licences etc for 2 years from exit but AFAIK the Commission has given no such assurances - and why would it? It will be a key EU bargaining tool.

Regardless of which side of the Brexit divide you stand on, I think we might all agree it's a mess.

[torvalds]

Originally Posted by clackerbag

Bristol Ground School have their ATO through the IAA and offer the ability to sit Austro Control exams (rather than UK CAA exams) on site. Form my experience only a very small number of people are sitting the CAA exams now.

Thanks clackerbag, I see. As you mentioned, perhaps Bristol though IAA seems to be the safer choice. I was planning to go with CATS Aviation, they told me I can sit Austro Control exams with them too (they are closer to where I live).
I am just worried what will happen if I fail to finish the training before 31st of Dec. Are they going to allow me to finish the training in the UK and sit Austro Control exams, or I have to start it from zero in January with an EASA ATO?

[jez d]

Torvalds, BGS have put a comprehensive guide on their website. You'll find the answer to your last question here: https://www.bristol.gs/uk-leaving-easa/

[torvalds]

Originally Posted by jez d

Torvalds, BGS have put a comprehensive guide on their website. You'll find the answer to your last question here: https://www.bristol.gs/uk-leaving-easa/

Fantastic jez d. I appreciate your help!

[cashash]

Originally Posted by Fortissimo

Airbus has already indicated that it might need to transfer its manufacturing capability out of the UK, probably to the benefit of France and Germany, to avoid the needless complications of 3rd country involvement in certification and airworthiness assurance.

Not sure about that as Airbus have it as a corporate policy to source 40% of components from outside of the EU (and therefore EASA).

[Bunk-Rest]

Maybe people posting on this thread should start with ;-

I voted remain, and I think that......

or

I voted leave, and I think........

It would cut out a certain amount of absolute nonsense

[Bunk-Rest]

What are the snowflake generation afraid of, apart from themselves?

[Aso]

What are the snowflake generation afraid of, apart from themselves?

Please take your BS to the Sun or similar sites. We have a government that is dreaming and in that process is seriously messing up our industry. Aviation is Global and there are two flavors: FAA or EASA... Any aviation professional who believes that it makes sense and helps the world to get a third small rulewriter should call his "peer to peer" friend as he has a severe mental issue or lack of knowledge of the industry and regulations.

Is EASA great? No. Is it better than the FAA? In the last 2 / 3 years: yes! Will people like a 3rd authority? No! Just the paperwork it will add to an Easyjet or AIG if the simply want to move aircraft within the group... And again: where will they find the right staff? It has been a disaster to get good inspectors for the last 5 years and the quality dropped even with the low workload...

So in short: daydreaming by politicians....

[Denti]

Originally Posted by Fortissimo

Despite statements here that the UK will continue to operate within the EASA system until the end of the transition period (see the CAA Brexit site), the European Commission has already (in Jan) directed the removal of UK CAA staff from all EASA decision-making or decision-shaping bodies, apparently in response to UK Govt noise about a hard line for negotiating (or not) the final Brexit arrangements.

I don’t think that has anything to do with the rhetorics of the UK government. It is simply a logical result of the current situation where the UK has to follow all EU rules but cannot legally have any say in them as the UK is now a third country. That is why there are no UK MEPs anymore, or any UK personnel actively working in any EU agency.

[happybiker]

Originally Posted by Denti

That is why there are no UK MEPs anymore, or any UK personnel actively working in any EU agency.

There may not be any UK MEPs anymore but I am sure that there are UK persons employed by EASA before Brexit who continue to still be employed by EASA.

[wiggy]

Originally Posted by Denti

I don’t think that has anything to do with the rhetorics of the UK government. It is simply a logical result of the current situation where the UK has to follow all EU rules but cannot legally have any say in them as the UK is now a third country. That is why there are no UK MEPs anymore, or any UK personnel actively working in any EU agency.

Agreed.... as in so many areas the U.K. now sits under european umbrella until the end of transition but has no say in the decision making process.

All well publicised years ago.

[Denti]

Originally Posted by happybiker

There may not be any UK MEPs anymore but I am sure that there are UK persons employed by EASA before Brexit who continue to still be employed by EASA.

You could be right, but as was alluded to in the post i replied to, all those in posts where decisions are made have been removed, as the UK cannot take part in any EU decision making anymore. It is not an EU member state after all, just a third country, and third countries (without a relevant agreement) cannot take part in any intra-EU decision making process. Of course those that hold a dual citizenship of an EU country are a different thing altogether.

[kiwi grey]

Originally Posted by Denti

Of course those that hold a dual citizenship of an EU country are a different thing altogether.

Are Airbus (in particular, but other 'majors' as well) likely to going to start a citizenship sponsorship programme so that employees they consider valuable who hold only UK citizenship are assisted to gain EU citizenship? This would take cooperation from the receiving government, but I could see this as being advantageous to the receiving country as well as the employer.

[Webby737]

Originally Posted by kiwi grey

Are Airbus (in particular, but other 'majors' as well) likely to going to start a citizenship sponsorship programme so that employees they consider valuable who hold only UK citizenship are assisted to gain EU citizenship? This would take cooperation from the receiving government, but I could see this as being advantageous to the receiving country as well as the employer.

They don't need to at the moment.
Anyone with a UK passport can register as a resident in their country of residence in the EU till next year, I would assume that those ex-pats working for Airbus based in France, Spain etc. have already registered.
Of course what happens next year is anyones guess.

[ATC Watcher]

Careful there is a huge difference between registering as resident and applying for citizenship. since we talk about Airbus, both France and Germany have similar laws.. UK citizens were given until end of the year to enjoy the current EU benefits. After that that will fall under the normal alien status and apply for both work and residence permit. . To request citizenship you need to have a few criteria the most common are minimum 5 years residence in the country and speak the language , in Germany even pass a good language test . .It is not as simple anymore after the recent immigration laws. . Of course you could always try to apply for refugee status , then those are waved...

[infrequentflyer789]

Originally Posted by ATC Watcher

UK citizens were given until end of the year to enjoy the current EU benefits. After that that will fall under the normal alien status and apply for both work and residence permit.

This isn't true, it would have been true under "no deal", but UK citizens resident in EU 27 or EU citizens resident in UK now have additional rights granted under the withdrawal agreement, these are over and above "normal alien status". The deal mandates specific "settled status" schemes in EU and UK, with qualifying criteria that are effectively the same as for EU freedom of movement. There are deadlines for applying though, and if you miss those then you will end up with "normal alien status".

See e.g. https://ec.europa.eu/info/european-u...zens-rights_en

[alfaman]

Reply

Originally Posted by infrequentflyer789

This isn't true, it would have been true under "no deal", but UK citizens resident in EU 27 or EU citizens resident in UK now have additional rights granted under the withdrawal agreement, these are over and above "normal alien status". The deal mandates specific "settled status" schemes in EU and UK, with qualifying criteria that are effectively the same as for EU freedom of movement. There are deadlines for applying though, and if you miss those then you will end up with "normal alien status".

See e.g. https://ec.europa.eu/info/european-u...zens-rights_en

So it is true, if we exit with no deal - which seems ever more likely to me...

[Luc Lion]

Originally Posted by alfaman

So it is true, if we exit with no deal - which seems ever more likely to me...

The deal in question is the Brexit withdrawal agreement which was signed on January 24th 2020 and became effective on February 1st 2020.
It's kind of history now. ;-)