2020: Dutch ATC legally threatens public media after EHAM runway blunder revealed.

[Less Hair]

The story is out now. There is no way to cover things up again legal threat or not. I‘d say it’s not too late to come up with some smart press release and rectify this. There is no value in fighting the story.

[His dudeness]

Originally Posted by Intrance

I am a pilot. I don't mind a single bit that my ATC communication might be recorded and re-transmitted.

I´m a pilot too and I mind "it". Have journalists taped and broadcasted all over the internet during their work.

If and when THIS happens, quid pro quo, put "us" up the internet. (and yes, I´m aware of the reality, thanks)

To investigate issues in aviation, we do not need the press up front, we need the procedures we already have.

[Less Hair]

ATC that‘s formal phrases and nothing personal or even private at busy airports like Schiphol. I don’t see the problem you do. All those spotters have receivers and might listen in so what?

[His dudeness]

Listen in and publishing with a direct access for anyone are 2 different things.

[OldnGrounded]

Originally Posted by His dudeness

I´m a pilot too and I mind "it". Have journalists taped and broadcasted all over the internet during their work.

If and when THIS happens, quid pro quo, put "us" up the internet. (and yes, I´m aware of the reality, thanks)

To investigate issues in aviation, we do not need the press up front, we need the procedures we already have.

Journalists' work is all over the Internet, and the airwaves, and in print. That's pretty much the nature of their work. Their private and internal communications are not.

Neither are the private and internal communications of pilots and controllers floating around in the public sphere. What is said in cockpits, towers and other ATC facilities isn't published or broadcast (well, except when accidents result in CVR transcripts being, at least partially, released).

I'm having a bit of a difficult time imagining what some people are saying to ATC that they feel a need to keep secret from the public. I must not have been listening to the interesting frequencies.

[Bus Driver Man]

Originally Posted by Stratofreighter

No, this is about censorship. This NH-Nieuws item of yesterday is only one of several recent incidents whereby LVNL puts pressure on Dutch public media.

Again read
https://www.parool.nl/amsterdam/weer...baan~bbf27729/
in a translation.

The English-language
https://nltimes.nl/2020/02/11/ruling...-safety-growth
was published earlier last week.

-The runway was inspected and operational. It was only not officially released for service.
-The incident was reported and published on the LVNL website. How can this be censorship?
-Technical adjustments will be implemented from March this year to prevent this in the future. So lessons learned from previous mistakes. A mistake was made and measures will be taken.

Anything else is just pure sensationalism by the media. As usual.

Incidents happen all the time. Anywhere. And they are being dealt with by internal investigations. We don’t need the media and the public opinion about something most people have no clue about.
I do admit that the LVNL has created a storm in a teacup themselves, which obviously works in favour of the media.

[Havingwings4ever]

I agree. The poster 'StratoCruiser' got a bit enthusiastic putting up links to the same subject I think.

Having flown in/out of EHAM/AMS/Schiphol airport for 30 years(and all over the world) I believe Dutch ATC are true professionals, EHAM is not the easiest ap for ATC looking at the layout of all those runways and neighboring airspace restrictions. And their standard ATC phraseology is usually better than some English speaking countries, sometimes feel bad for an Asian carrier coming into LAX, JFK ,MIA etc.
We are all human and even the utmost professional will make mistakes.

[FrequentSLF]

As SLF I cannot understand the reason of this thread, in summary someone posted some conversation on YouTube, others did not like to have their conversations posted so sue for removal.
Is this worth a thread, plus several posts to keep it going?
TBH I found just annoying, but that is my FLS stupid opinion.

[Gauges and Dials]

The airwaves are public

If I walk down a public street, anyone has a right to publish an account of having seen me, or even to take a photograph of me and publish it.

If I speak on the radio over the public airwaves, I can't imagine what reasonable legal theory prevents anyone who chooses to listen from reporting what they heard.

[sandos]

The rules about not being allowed to act on, or retransmit these recordings are idiotic in my mind. As mentioned, taking photos in public is somewhat similar: its a sensation that is easily accessible. Trying to restrict the flow of information is like restricting a stream of water with a spoon: almost impossible, and not in any way productive. Sweden has them, as well. I have been thinking about just opening a darknet site to share my local ATC frequency, but sadly I think its probably soooo boring to listen to. Now if I had lived close to a larger airport, however...

Yes, sensationalism is a problem. One solution: let people hear how often mistakes are made so that its not a big deal. Media and people get used/bored by stuff happening. By the way, what about all the US recordings that are out there of similar incidents? Did the world somehow crash and burn from those?

[the_stranger]

Originally Posted by Gauges and Dials

If I walk down a public street, anyone has a right to publish an account of having seen me, or even to take a photograph of me and publish it.

Not in the Netherlands, at least not as clearly as you state.

There are circumstances where publishing a photo of you walking on a (public) street is not allowed or at least debatable.
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[b263354]

Holy crap! Here we go again! As stated earlier by various persons, OWN UP TO IT. And to the others, stop acting like those entitled little brats that are flooding the aviation sector as we speak. It was an error, it IS public domain, they ARE funded by the public, so they CAN be held accountable by the public. FACT is this IS censorship, why? It comes at a tricky timestamp because of reasons stated earlier, little good boy dutch of the class has been called out anyways because we as all the rest do bad and can't hide behind the charade anymore. (elbow deep already concerning cover ups but back on topic again).

As far as I am concerned they may live stream me on camera so that all in the back can see how "we as a team" are professionals and when so, are professional and adult enough to own up to mistakes and fix them. (PG13)

[Black Pudding]

I’m struggling to understand what the reply was to the question why the go

What was the reply from ATC ?

[the_stranger]

Originally Posted by Black Pudding

I’m struggling to understand what the reply was to the question why the go

What was the reply from ATC ?

That the runway was closed and therefore they couldn't give permission to land.

[Gove N.T.]

May the gods protect us all from sensationalist journalism, the Twitterfarti, the Daily Mail “terror in the skies " type headlines.
Perhaps the ATC fellows have made a rod for their own backs bu really, this is a nothing story

[MathFox]

Originally Posted by Gove N.T.

May the gods protect us all from sensationalist journalism, the Twitterfarti, the Daily Mail “terror in the skies " type headlines.
Perhaps the ATC fellows have made a rod for their own backs bu really, this is a nothing story

"Airplanes landed without damage on a clear runway"

The events are an indication that, despite all professionalism of ATC, the holes in the cheese at Schiphol are larger than those usually found in Dutch cheese. Problems have been reported before, advisories have been published, but process and safety improvements are slow.

[Gauges and Dials]

Originally Posted by the_stranger

Not in the Netherlands, at least not as clearly as you state.

There are circumstances where publishing a photo of you walking on a (public) street is not allowed or at least debatable.
​​​

I fully understand that not every government protects freedom in the same way.

[lomapaseo]

Originally Posted by Gauges and Dials

I fully understand that not every government protects freedom in the same way.

The next step is enforcement,. That is usually far more difficult than publishing a rule.