A380 'Hovering'
Dog Tired
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AFAIK the A380 is designed to land with drift on, the AP does not perform an ALIGN maneouvre until after touchdown so why should the pilot?
Never flown it but I have watched a x-wing landing at DXB on the pax video screen - in a lighter wind...
Never flown it but I have watched a x-wing landing at DXB on the pax video screen - in a lighter wind...
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I don't buy "kicked rudder the wrong way" You just wouldn't. It's in muscle memory. You wouldn't turn a car steering wheel the wrong way, towards the thing you're trying to avoid.
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For large Boeing aircraft at least, landing with crab only is an acceptable technique on a wet runway. It is the recommended technique on a very slippery runway.
The landing gear is easily capable of it.
There are plenty of videos on YouTube of 380s doing crosswind landings that look similar to this.
Bear in mind the telephoto lens effect exaggerates motion. And most of the rudder inputs you see are not the pilot but gust suppression / yaw damping automation.
The landing gear is easily capable of it.
There are plenty of videos on YouTube of 380s doing crosswind landings that look similar to this.
Bear in mind the telephoto lens effect exaggerates motion. And most of the rudder inputs you see are not the pilot but gust suppression / yaw damping automation.
Last edited by HPSOV L; 17th Feb 2020 at 07:27.
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I saw this on Sky and was well impressed so thought I'd head over to pprune where I'm sure everyone will be slagging it off and saying what a hash of it the pilot had made. Wasn't disappointed.
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Another classic pprune thread 
...and I challenge anyone to ‘kick the rudder straight’ the next time they fly an airliner.....hopefully someone catches that on YouTube!
...and I challenge anyone to ‘kick the rudder straight’ the next time they fly an airliner.....hopefully someone catches that on YouTube!
We don’t “kick” commercial aircraft straight, we squeeze off the drift, and on appropriate types we can lower the in to wind wing too.
”Kicking” sounds so Daily Mail (or sky news).
”Kicking” sounds so Daily Mail (or sky news).
Interesting set of viewpoints here.
If the group want to beat up the PIC and PF for this sort of video footage, they need to include the organisation that places the lump in this position. That is all of the flight operations organisation that sits above the driver, and the corporation that places the commercial pressure on the crew and the operations management.
Plane dealt with the issues pretty well all up, strong plane.
I can sympathise with the crew, I plonked a 744 into a certain airport once with a xw of 35K which was all well and good until the throttles were closed, and we got a gust of 64K of xw component. Total wind speed was over 80K on the gust. The drift angle increased so much that in the time it took to plonk on the ground I considered into wind rudder, or not, and in fact did put some in. I also considered a G/A, and decided that it would be just worse than the impending touchdown, and would not avoid ground contact. Rest of crew laughed their butts off on the taxi in. I got the QAR readout later and looked at it for a long time, but couldn't see a better solution on the day. The approach was within limits all the way until it wasn't and that was too low to avoid a touchdown from throttles closed. (I was the FO at the time)
The peak torsion loads are lessened in normal circumstances by having a yaw rate established towards the direction of travel. That usually removes the unpleasant lateral lurch that occurs when a touchdown with drift on occurs, with no yaw acceleration commenced.
If the group want to beat up the PIC and PF for this sort of video footage, they need to include the organisation that places the lump in this position. That is all of the flight operations organisation that sits above the driver, and the corporation that places the commercial pressure on the crew and the operations management.
Plane dealt with the issues pretty well all up, strong plane.
I can sympathise with the crew, I plonked a 744 into a certain airport once with a xw of 35K which was all well and good until the throttles were closed, and we got a gust of 64K of xw component. Total wind speed was over 80K on the gust. The drift angle increased so much that in the time it took to plonk on the ground I considered into wind rudder, or not, and in fact did put some in. I also considered a G/A, and decided that it would be just worse than the impending touchdown, and would not avoid ground contact. Rest of crew laughed their butts off on the taxi in. I got the QAR readout later and looked at it for a long time, but couldn't see a better solution on the day. The approach was within limits all the way until it wasn't and that was too low to avoid a touchdown from throttles closed. (I was the FO at the time)
The peak torsion loads are lessened in normal circumstances by having a yaw rate established towards the direction of travel. That usually removes the unpleasant lateral lurch that occurs when a touchdown with drift on occurs, with no yaw acceleration commenced.
Psychophysiological entity
I don't think the 380 gives a lot of room for top rudder. 
It's the first time in my life I've sat and watched other people fly civil aircraft and really not wanted to be doing it. I imagine sneaking around on my preflight and gluing rollerskates under 2 and 3.
It's the first time in my life I've sat and watched other people fly civil aircraft and really not wanted to be doing it. I imagine sneaking around on my preflight and gluing rollerskates under 2 and 3.
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Wrong ! Where did you get info regarding 380 landing . Without going into detail ," decrab " is the only approved x wind landing technique.
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From the Airbus Brochure "Safety First" #15 February 2013 © Airbus S.A.S.:
===========
FINAL APPROACH
In crosswind conditions, the flight crew should fly a "crabbed" final approach wings level, with the aircraft (cockpit) positioned on the extended runway centerline until the flare.
FLARE
The objectives of the lateral and directional control of the aircraft during the flare are:
• To land on the centerline
• To minimize the loads on the main landing gear.
The recommended de-crab technique is to use the following:
• The rudder to align the aircraft with the runway heading during the flare
• The roll control, if needed, to maintain the aircraft on the runway centerline.
The flight crew should counteract any tendency to drift downwind by an appropriate lateral(roll) input on the sidestick.
In the case of strong crosswind during the de-crab phase, the PF should be prepared to add small bank angle into the wind to maintain the aircraft on the runway centerline. The flight crew can land the aircraft with a partial de-crab (i.e. a residual crab angle up to about 5 deg) to prevent an excessive bank. This technique prevents wing tip or engine nacelle strike caused by an excessive bank angle. Therefore it is wise to know what the maximum bank angle is during the flare phase for the type you are flying so as to ensure no such strikes. As a consequence, this can result in touching down with some bank angle into the wind, therefore, with the upwind landing gear first.
===========
I will leave it to the professional pilots, engineers, and/or physicists to confirm/refute the PF met these Airbus parameters based only on this video evidence.
My opinion is that the crew did the best they could, with what they had, at the time they had it.
===========
FINAL APPROACH
In crosswind conditions, the flight crew should fly a "crabbed" final approach wings level, with the aircraft (cockpit) positioned on the extended runway centerline until the flare.
FLARE
The objectives of the lateral and directional control of the aircraft during the flare are:
• To land on the centerline
• To minimize the loads on the main landing gear.
The recommended de-crab technique is to use the following:
• The rudder to align the aircraft with the runway heading during the flare
• The roll control, if needed, to maintain the aircraft on the runway centerline.
The flight crew should counteract any tendency to drift downwind by an appropriate lateral(roll) input on the sidestick.
In the case of strong crosswind during the de-crab phase, the PF should be prepared to add small bank angle into the wind to maintain the aircraft on the runway centerline. The flight crew can land the aircraft with a partial de-crab (i.e. a residual crab angle up to about 5 deg) to prevent an excessive bank. This technique prevents wing tip or engine nacelle strike caused by an excessive bank angle. Therefore it is wise to know what the maximum bank angle is during the flare phase for the type you are flying so as to ensure no such strikes. As a consequence, this can result in touching down with some bank angle into the wind, therefore, with the upwind landing gear first.
===========
I will leave it to the professional pilots, engineers, and/or physicists to confirm/refute the PF met these Airbus parameters based only on this video evidence.
My opinion is that the crew did the best they could, with what they had, at the time they had it.
The only issue I see is they flared just a tad too early, which on the 380 makes the drift worse as there is no going back should you push ahead. I have no idea when they went idle power so hard to say of that’s another issue.
Rudder inputs are FBW on final not the pilot playing with their feet!
This will actually be a good video of the sensation of an early flare.
We we all have our good and bad days. I did something similar the other day. Whoopsy.
Rudder inputs are FBW on final not the pilot playing with their feet!
This will actually be a good video of the sensation of an early flare.
We we all have our good and bad days. I did something similar the other day. Whoopsy.
I guess that would have been somewhat uncomfortable down the back of the airplane
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benefit of the doubt.
After having done this many times in the Whale, up to 48 kts direct cross, including even with #1 or #4 shutdown, .... e.g., at KEF, ....both manually and with A/L, ...it would be my advice that one needs to know both the actual wind and gust environment, as well as the instantaneous drift rate and accelerations, and fuel state, and alternates state, and other factors too, ....so as to be able to make a reliable judgement about either pilot technique, use of rudder and lateral control, or flare technique. So... Perhaps an assessment might be best left to the crew's chief pilot to review all those kinds of parameters, as well as the DFDR data, before making any judgement, other than being thankful that in the end it apparently turned out to be a successful landing, with the aircraft appearing to be undamaged? Have we stopped giving the flight crews who were in the seat, at least the benefit of the doubt?
. We call ourselves professionals too , ironic .
