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Pegasus accident in SAW; just reported

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Pegasus accident in SAW; just reported

Old 5th Feb 2020, 20:05
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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1 reported dead by the health minister.

https://t24.com.tr/haber/sabiha-gokc...calandi,859486
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 20:14
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Pegasis was P2F. Their “graduates” weren’t as good as they told themselves.
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 20:21
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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non stabilised approach.
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 20:26
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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my non-turkish sources report that cockpit resource managment in turkish airliners is far from desired
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 20:29
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Hmmm... The locations of the fuselage breaks look very familiar. I wonder if they have anything in (Du)commun with the other NG breaks.
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 20:29
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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The chance that the FO was coming from P2F is high, would it be possible to charge EagleJet for that accident? It would be nice for the community.
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 20:39
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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If there was a proper overrun area the damage would be minimal.Its a another new airport yet again poorly designed .
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 20:50
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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think it is 20 years old or something ?
Wonder if Zaventem where i live nearby in Belgium has better overrun areas ?
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 20:54
  #69 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by kontrolor View Post
my non-turkish sources report that cockpit resource managment in turkish airliners is far from desired
Another avoidable accident. Rich in CRM failures unfortunately for junior birdmen to learn from.
Airport design also a critical factor.
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 21:03
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by parkfell View Post
Another avoidable accident. Rich in CRM failures unfortunately for junior birdmen to learn from.
Airport design also a critical factor.
its their home base ...
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 21:15
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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Nothing wrong with the airport. I’d suggest the unstable approach with a tailwind are more concerning. Further, what was the PF smoking? The picture would have looked so wrong and yet no go around? FFS.

My boss is on me if the trend vector goes outside the bug...

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Old 5th Feb 2020, 21:19
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Penko the tailwind at 270/11 was 5 knots (10 cross). Hand flying on short final I would see no reason to break off the approach in a 737 to a long runway with that reported wind. In many years as a captain on the 737 I favored having the FMC page open with the wind component but again for the reasons given in the excellent post above you treat it with caution particularly with regard to gusts. The problem came when they did not react to the rapidly changing reported wind and crucially in not going around when they missed the touchdown zone.
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 21:28
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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The "pilots union" are saying there was insufficient time for the runway water to be cleared.. new one on me.. anyway:

Hasn't the ground at the end of 06 (24 threshold) been shallowed ( thankfully) with the new tunnels? I recall it was much steeper at that end two years ago..

The aircraft departed Izmir Airport at 17:22 hours. At the time the flight arrived in the vicinity of Istanbul-Sabiha Gökçen Airport, a thunderstorm was passing. Runway in use was 06. About 18:17 the Tower controller cleared another flight for takeoff from runway 06, reporting wind 300 degrees at 11 knots, gusting to 21 knots. The subsequent arrival was flight 2193, which was cleared to land with wind information given as 270 degrees at 22 knots, gusting to 30 knots. This translates to a 19 knot tailwind.
Since the wind was shifting the controller reported to a flight on the ground that it was to expect a runway change for departure.
At 18:19 Pegasus 2193 touched down, but failed to come to a complete stop on the runway. It overran and went down an embankment, breaking in three. The aircraft came to rest about 20 m below runway elevation.
Data from flight tracking website Flightradar24 suggest that the aircraft was steered to the left at the end of the runway, likely as there was an antenna array just past the stopway. The last recorded ground speed was 63 knots as the aircraft crossed the perimeter road.

Runway 06 is a concrete runway with a Landing Distance Available (LDA) of 3000 m. At the runway end there is a 65 m long stopway, followed by antenna array, perimeter road and a downslope.

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Old 5th Feb 2020, 21:31
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Fuselage Breaks

Think about how an aircraft is built. The strongest bit is the wing box - by a considerable margin - for what should be obvious reasons. So if you over stress a fuselage to failure, it's not initially going to break at the strongest part - it'll fail fore and/or aft of the strongest part. So if a fuselage breaks into three parts, it's logical and perfectly understandable that it'll break for and aft of the wing.
It's not poor design or construction - it's basic physics.
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 21:39
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by lederhosen View Post
Penko the tailwind at 270/11 was 5 knots.
Where are you getting that from? As from the tower recording, the ATCO when clearing them to land passed the wind as 270/22G30 which on 06 is 19G26 TWC. According to the AVH the ADS-B data reported 194kts GS at roughly two miles out. They definitely weren't landing with 5 on the tail.
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 21:44
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tdracer View Post
Think about how an aircraft is built. The strongest bit is the wing box - by a considerable margin - for what should be obvious reasons. So if you over stress a fuselage to failure, it's not initially going to break at the strongest part - it'll fail fore and/or aft of the strongest part. So if a fuselage breaks into three parts, it's logical and perfectly understandable that it'll break for and aft of the wing.
It's not poor design or construction - it's basic physics.
Exactly. It has break somewhere. Otherwise it would be a tank. 757's buckle behind the nose gear when the nose is slammed on the ground. 767's buckle farther back. If they were built so they never buckled the plane would be too heavy to takeoff.
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 21:52
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Transportation Minister 24 hours before the accident: "We have a runway at Sabiha Gokcen. This runway is very tired. At night when no flight are scheduled, almost every single night there is maintenance work on the runway"
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 22:09
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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Whatever has happened, we will never know exactly. Turkey does not publish ANY accident reports.
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 22:12
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Kirks gusset View Post
Data from flight tracking website Flightradar24 suggest that the aircraft was steered to the left at the end of the runway, likely as there was an antenna array just past the stopway.
It's not clear from your post what source you are quoting, if any, in the brown coloured text.

All that the FR24 data shows is that the aircraft swung to the left. You can't tell from the data whether that was a result of a steering command or otherwise.
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 22:17
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wtsmg View Post
Where are you getting that from? As from the tower recording, the ATCO when clearing them to land passed the wind as 270/22G30 which on 06 is 19G26 TWC. According to the AVH the ADS-B data reported 194kts GS at roughly two miles out. They definitely weren't landing with 5 on the tail.
"1500 meters before the runway threshold the aircraft was descending through 950 feet MSL (corrected for local pressure, actual Mode-S reading 1500 feet)/661 feet AGL at 194 knots over ground,"

No, AVH reported them at 1500m out, and that is less than a mile, at194 knots. that is so far from a stabilized approach as I am from China right now.
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