Pegasus accident in SAW; just reported
de minimus non curat lex
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Originally Posted by kontrolor
my non-turkish sources report that cockpit resource managment in turkish airliners is far from desired
Airport design also a critical factor.
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Originally Posted by parkfell
Another avoidable accident. Rich in CRM failures unfortunately for junior birdmen to learn from.
Airport design also a critical factor.
Airport design also a critical factor.
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Nothing wrong with the airport. I’d suggest the unstable approach with a tailwind are more concerning. Further, what was the PF smoking? The picture would have looked so wrong and yet no go around? FFS.
My boss is on me if the trend vector goes outside the bug...
DD
My boss is on me if the trend vector goes outside the bug...
DD
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Penko the tailwind at 270/11 was 5 knots (10 cross). Hand flying on short final I would see no reason to break off the approach in a 737 to a long runway with that reported wind. In many years as a captain on the 737 I favored having the FMC page open with the wind component but again for the reasons given in the excellent post above you treat it with caution particularly with regard to gusts. The problem came when they did not react to the rapidly changing reported wind and crucially in not going around when they missed the touchdown zone.
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The "pilots union" are saying there was insufficient time for the runway water to be cleared.. new one on me.. anyway:
Hasn't the ground at the end of 06 (24 threshold) been shallowed ( thankfully) with the new tunnels? I recall it was much steeper at that end two years ago..
The aircraft departed Izmir Airport at 17:22 hours. At the time the flight arrived in the vicinity of Istanbul-Sabiha Gökçen Airport, a thunderstorm was passing. Runway in use was 06. About 18:17 the Tower controller cleared another flight for takeoff from runway 06, reporting wind 300 degrees at 11 knots, gusting to 21 knots. The subsequent arrival was flight 2193, which was cleared to land with wind information given as 270 degrees at 22 knots, gusting to 30 knots. This translates to a 19 knot tailwind.
Since the wind was shifting the controller reported to a flight on the ground that it was to expect a runway change for departure.
At 18:19 Pegasus 2193 touched down, but failed to come to a complete stop on the runway. It overran and went down an embankment, breaking in three. The aircraft came to rest about 20 m below runway elevation.
Data from flight tracking website Flightradar24 suggest that the aircraft was steered to the left at the end of the runway, likely as there was an antenna array just past the stopway. The last recorded ground speed was 63 knots as the aircraft crossed the perimeter road.
Runway 06 is a concrete runway with a Landing Distance Available (LDA) of 3000 m. At the runway end there is a 65 m long stopway, followed by antenna array, perimeter road and a downslope.
Hasn't the ground at the end of 06 (24 threshold) been shallowed ( thankfully) with the new tunnels? I recall it was much steeper at that end two years ago..
The aircraft departed Izmir Airport at 17:22 hours. At the time the flight arrived in the vicinity of Istanbul-Sabiha Gökçen Airport, a thunderstorm was passing. Runway in use was 06. About 18:17 the Tower controller cleared another flight for takeoff from runway 06, reporting wind 300 degrees at 11 knots, gusting to 21 knots. The subsequent arrival was flight 2193, which was cleared to land with wind information given as 270 degrees at 22 knots, gusting to 30 knots. This translates to a 19 knot tailwind.
Since the wind was shifting the controller reported to a flight on the ground that it was to expect a runway change for departure.
At 18:19 Pegasus 2193 touched down, but failed to come to a complete stop on the runway. It overran and went down an embankment, breaking in three. The aircraft came to rest about 20 m below runway elevation.
Data from flight tracking website Flightradar24 suggest that the aircraft was steered to the left at the end of the runway, likely as there was an antenna array just past the stopway. The last recorded ground speed was 63 knots as the aircraft crossed the perimeter road.
Runway 06 is a concrete runway with a Landing Distance Available (LDA) of 3000 m. At the runway end there is a 65 m long stopway, followed by antenna array, perimeter road and a downslope.
Fuselage Breaks
Think about how an aircraft is built. The strongest bit is the wing box - by a considerable margin - for what should be obvious reasons. So if you over stress a fuselage to failure, it's not initially going to break at the strongest part - it'll fail fore and/or aft of the strongest part. So if a fuselage breaks into three parts, it's logical and perfectly understandable that it'll break for and aft of the wing.
It's not poor design or construction - it's basic physics.
It's not poor design or construction - it's basic physics.
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Originally Posted by tdracer
Think about how an aircraft is built. The strongest bit is the wing box - by a considerable margin - for what should be obvious reasons. So if you over stress a fuselage to failure, it's not initially going to break at the strongest part - it'll fail fore and/or aft of the strongest part. So if a fuselage breaks into three parts, it's logical and perfectly understandable that it'll break for and aft of the wing.
It's not poor design or construction - it's basic physics.
It's not poor design or construction - it's basic physics.
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Transportation Minister 24 hours before the accident: "We have a runway at Sabiha Gokcen. This runway is very tired. At night when no flight are scheduled, almost every single night there is maintenance work on the runway"
Originally Posted by Kirks gusset
Data from flight tracking website Flightradar24 suggest that the aircraft was steered to the left at the end of the runway, likely as there was an antenna array just past the stopway.
All that the FR24 data shows is that the aircraft swung to the left. You can't tell from the data whether that was a result of a steering command or otherwise.
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Originally Posted by wtsmg
Where are you getting that from? As from the tower recording, the ATCO when clearing them to land passed the wind as 270/22G30 which on 06 is 19G26 TWC. According to the AVH the ADS-B data reported 194kts GS at roughly two miles out. They definitely weren't landing with 5 on the tail.
No, AVH reported them at 1500m out, and that is less than a mile, at194 knots. that is so far from a stabilized approach as I am from China right now.
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I am mystified that when a B738 runs through a localizer antenna and then over a 20+ meter cliff at 60+ kts, people on this board are concerned at how the fuselage broke up!?
Originally Posted by Admiral346
"1500 meters before the runway threshold the aircraft was descending through 950 feet MSL (corrected for local pressure, actual Mode-S reading 1500 feet)/661 feet AGL at 194 knots over ground,"
No, AVH reported them at 1500m out, and that is less than a mile, at 194 knots. that is so far from a stabilized approach as I am from China right now.
No, AVH reported them at 1500m out, and that is less than a mile, at 194 knots. that is so far from a stabilized approach as I am from China right now.
IAS would obviously have been somewhat less than the 194 kts groundspeed, based on the reported wind.
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I wonder how many of those “If it ain’t Boeing I’m not going” bumper stickers / T-shirts / beer mats they’re selling these days?
Training, training, training plus experience should become the top priority for all airlines when giving the reins of these complex jet aircraft to future commanders.
Training, training, training plus experience should become the top priority for all airlines when giving the reins of these complex jet aircraft to future commanders.
