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Latest research: Bleed Air Ducts can not be cleaned, pollutants penetrate human body

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Latest research: Bleed Air Ducts can not be cleaned, pollutants penetrate human body

Old 3rd Feb 2020, 11:49
  #21 (permalink)  
BRE
 
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Originally Posted by Ben_S View Post
Yes, but car fumes, whilst not good for you, don't contain organophosphates.
Actually, are fully synthetic, high performace 0W30 car motor oils free of organophosphates?
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Old 3rd Feb 2020, 22:49
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Snooky, I realise you may have simplified of 'dumbed down' your post for the general audience, but a couple of points caught my eye:

Originally Posted by snooky View Post
I had the blood tests 5 years after I retired. In particular there were unusually high levels of benzine and toluene.
What symptoms led you to get tested for benzine and toluene 5 years after you stopped flying?

..."genetic testing revealed that I am not good at removing toxins"

Can you add some detail to that?
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 08:01
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JustinHeywood View Post
Snooky, I realise you may have simplified of 'dumbed down' your post for the general audience, but a couple of points caught my eye:



What symptoms led you to get tested for benzine and toluene 5 years after you stopped flying?

..."genetic testing revealed that I am not good at removing toxins"

Can you add some detail to that?
Having spent years having tests including many mri scans to explain cardiac problems then neuropathy and other symptoms often associated with aerotoxic syndrome I had blood tests privately. I had exhausted the nhs system including their “clinical pathway” with no diagnosis.
The blood tests found raised levels of many of the contents of aero engine oil which was unsurprising considering I had regularly smelled it in 20 years flying the 757.
By avoiding toxins, following organic diet and supplements within a year the toxins were down to normal levels.
Under medical advice I chose to have dna tests to possibly explain my symptoms and in a very long report found that my genes whilst good at absorbing toxins were not good at removing them.
I feel satisfied personally to have explained my health problems. I do know of others who flew the same aircraft as me who have had health problems at relatively young age, some fatal.
In my carreer I did have 2 “fume events” requiring oxygen use, but I believe that the main problems stem from the very small doses to which I was exposed on most days.
I would certainly encourage current crew to take any unusual odours in flight very seriously and use oxygen if in any doubt.
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 20:03
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by meleagertoo View Post
[...] but feel that as every human being has the same basic physiology and chemistry it seems pretty unlikely that this is a scientifically accepted theorey[...]
Humans differ quite a bit. Some of us (European ancestry, mostly) can easily digest cow milk as adults. Most humans have a hard time with it, and drinking a big glass of milk leads to hours of cramps and misery. Some of us have livers that make plenty of the enzyme alcohol de-hydrogenase; others (some East Asians and others) make much less, and experience headache and flushed skin after one drink. It doesn't surprise me a bit that, for any given toxin, there's quite a bit of variation in how fast our bodies clear it.
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 14:37
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Well that explains it all. I am Scottish and I survived the 146 for 19 years without a single symptom. Mind you, I didn't drink any milk either.
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 16:41
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Smile

Originally Posted by JW411 View Post
Well that explains it all. I am Scottish and I survived the 146 for 19 years without a single symptom. Mind you, I didn't drink any milk either.
Did you sub. Scotch for the milk? Perhaps a natural remedy.

Last edited by Longtimer; 5th Feb 2020 at 17:50.
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 16:47
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by meleagertoo View Post
With respect, clptrap. Utter claptrap.
I flew on the 146 as have millions of people and very few indeed have suffered anything, let alone all of them as you have rather ludicrously claimed. measure of ridiculousness.
With respect, I don’t agree. We had many a fume events on 146s (containing organophosphates), from leaky seals.
And worse of all was the APU, which could fill the cabin with blue smoke (containing organophosphates).
We had many crew with long-term headach issues, that were never resolved until retirement...

Silver
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 17:32
  #28 (permalink)  


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I've been on this forum for many years (decades!), and this rings bells -- I'm pretty sure this has come up (several times?) before
Surely this repeated subject should have been thoroughly invesigated by now and if validated a solution found by now?
(I have to admit that most of my long-distance flying too place at heightd limited ton20nfeet above ground with BA at LHR many years ago )
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 19:58
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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The reports of crews suffering from fumes from BA's 757 fleet have been around for decades - I dont know if you get more claims about BA rather than other operators because they mainly used the 535C engines and not the E4's or because they did have a larger fleet than most.
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 07:09
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Worth a look for anyone interested in this https://www.everybodyflies.com/
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 19:09
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Snooky,
What kind of tests do I need to get done if I suspect that I could've been affected by toxic cabin air? What would I have to look for?
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 21:33
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Range View Post
Snooky,
What kind of tests do I need to get done if I suspect that I could've been affected by toxic cabin air? What would I have to look for?
Apparently tests within 48 hours of exposure are ideal. In my case I was not tested till about 5 years after retirement, but many constituents of jet engine oil were found to be at unacceptable levels. In particular benzine and its derivatives and toluene. In my case organophosphates were at acceptable levels, I think that these are normally found soon after a “fume event”.
I had the tests done at Biolab under the advice of a doctor, who viewed the results and set out a regime to achieve acceptable levels.
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 23:08
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Studies have demonstrated that people living near high traffic roads. Fortunately lead free gas has resulted in a decrease of blood lead levels in children in these areas.

Hopefully further analysis will reveal just what substances have been found deposited inside the bleed air ducts of dismantled aircraft. Remember though that volatiles may just pass through.

At present aircrew are involuntary contaminant detectors to a far greater degree than the pax.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 22:59
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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snooky,
Thank you for sharing all that info
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