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LOT buys CONDOR

Old 2nd Apr 2020, 08:07
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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krismiller - There is a similar article in today´s Frankfurter Allgemeine ( one of the leading newspapers in the country ), right now Condor are needed ( and busy ) bringing stranded Germans back from all corners of the world, this on behalf of the government. a position which will go on for a while. Temporary ownership by the government is seriously considered, not to make them a state owned airline on the long run, but to sell it when the dust has settled.
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Old 2nd Apr 2020, 08:34
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Why are Condor needed when Lufthansa have a massive available capacity?
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Old 2nd Apr 2020, 09:32
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After Air Berlin's and Germania's demise not much is left on the german market outside of the Lufthansa Group pool of airlines. Especially if you look to Frankfurt. This is why the government tries to keep separate players alive. TUI is another one.

Last edited by Less Hair; 3rd Apr 2020 at 05:21.
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Old 2nd Apr 2020, 11:48
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Originally Posted by RoyHudd View Post
Why are Condor needed when Lufthansa have a massive available capacity?
Condor is not needed, it is given jobs at hugely overpriced premiums to keep it alive a few days longer. Simply said, Germany likes to display itself as being a free market society, but in the end it isn't. It is simply market distortion by keeping a carrier alive that has been in administration for months before Covid-19 even existed. But then, they were always on par with Italy in that regard.
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Old 2nd Apr 2020, 12:10
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Thomas Cook Aviation a sister company to Condor has now gone into administration. Nobody really knows what the future holds. But you would have to be pretty optimistic to think that there will be much of a summer season for the charter operators. There may not be many German airlines left outside the LH group. But Easyjet and Ryanair employ a lot of German pilots and were certainly filling the space left by the demise of other operators.
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Old 2nd Apr 2020, 21:09
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Originally Posted by RoyHudd View Post
Why are Condor needed when Lufthansa have a massive available capacity?
From a passengers point of view: Condor had a great product that was superior to Easy/Ryan/TUI and totally worth the premium if you were looking to get to a vacation destination that LH didn't serve. I always liked Condor, unfortunately they cut their routes from Berlin some time ago. Also flew Condor for business travel to the US once in Premium Eco.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 14:37
  #27 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by BEA 71 View Post
krismiller -Temporary ownership by the government is seriously considered, not to make them a state owned airline on the long run, but to sell it when the dust has settled.
Very unlikely, they already struggled to find someone to buy Condor last year, now who's gonna buy them after all this? Then as well, what about Thomas Cook Aviation, why will they not be taken over by the government, Sundair the same. Local business only get support if they haven't been in trouble before. Condor couldn't and still cannot survive on its own and the same rules have to be applied to everybody.
What about Vapiano? The government should take them too.

I am sorry for the guys, its no fun to loose a job in aviation right now, but I don't think Condor has an actual chance to survive.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 15:55
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Originally Posted by EAM View Post
Very unlikely, they already struggled to find someone to buy Condor last year, now who's gonna buy them after all this? Then as well, what about Thomas Cook Aviation, why will they not be taken over by the government, Sundair the same. Local business only get support if they haven't been in trouble before. Condor couldn't and still cannot survive on its own and the same rules have to be applied to everybody.
What about Vapiano? The government should take them too.

I am sorry for the guys, its no fun to loose a job in aviation right now, but I don't think Condor has an actual chance to survive.
While Vapiano is a bad example - fast food chain - I agree with your comments regarding Condor as I see no practical solution for the company.
Just in the news now is that the German gvmt is in talks with Lufthansa for a rescue package or state stake.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 19:35
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German state will take over Condor, then merge it with Lufthansa.
You read it here first.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 19:42
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Possible. LH owned Condor for many years before TC and such.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 19:43
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Originally Posted by foxcharliep2 View Post
While Vapiano is a bad example - fast food chain -
Yes you are right, bad example, Vapiano has almost double the employees than Condor and all their restaurants are very modern and up to date, not like the fleet of Condor with their 25 year old 767s and an average fleet age of 20 years. ;-)

So who would invest in Condor after this crises and completely renew their fleet.

But after LTU disappeared, it would of course be very sad to see an other big name disappearing.
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Old 4th Apr 2020, 09:28
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There seems to be enough travel demand in Germany for more than one airline. And given that Frankfurt airport is the country's biggest work location by headcount, even more than Volkswagen's Wolfsburg main site, it is understandable that the government tries to keep jobs there and assists with bridging loans and such.

Having said that it seems that stock minded companies don't keep enough reserves for bad times while happily paying dividends and boni to their management in good ones these days.

Last edited by Less Hair; 4th Apr 2020 at 09:43.
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Old 4th Apr 2020, 15:55
  #33 (permalink)  
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Seems to be correct, but germans don't want to spent lots of money on their vacation, or anything else, everything has to be cheap.
That is why Condor is in trouble instead of making lots of money, specially after AirBerlin went bust ,for the (almost) the same reason.
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Old 4th Apr 2020, 20:46
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Not true. Most package holidays are now middle class priced and above. Look at Germany's wealthy retired crowd. Traveling like there is no tomorrow.

And they do spend quite a bit on new cars as well. They must be SUV's these days.

Last edited by Less Hair; 5th Apr 2020 at 16:27.
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Old 5th Apr 2020, 16:04
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https://www.air101.co.uk/2020/04/tho...p_Qwc.linkedin

Thomas cook aviation consisted of about 15% of Condors fleet. Total of 6 aircraft and Condor has a total of 53.

One of the last vestigates of the Thomas Cook came crashing down this week when Condor - the German sideline of the group, rescued by Thomas Cooks German management cancelled its leasing deal with Thomas Cook Aviation.

Thomas Cook Aviation, based in Oberursel, Hesse, was formerly known as Air Berlin Aeronautics, a subsidiary Air Berlin, it became known as Air Berlin Aviation, until Air Berlin went bankrupt. It was rescued from the mire by the Thomas Cook Group in 2018. It flew a small fleet of six Airbus A320s and A321s all on behalf of Condor and sporting its livery.

The contract with Condor was in effect until the end of December 2021 and should have been safe, however, with the ongoing coronavirus COVID-19 crisis Condor was forced to ground most of its aircraft. It used its own fleet to operate limited repatriation flights, which left Thomas Cook Aviation's aircraft sitting on the ground, doing nothing other than costing Condor money. "For this reason, like many other airlines, we had to terminate the contract with the seasonal partner airline Thomas Cook Aviation, among other things, to reduce costs," a spokesperson for Condor said.
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Old 6th Apr 2020, 18:07
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Originally Posted by Less Hair View Post
Not true. Most package holidays are now middle class priced and above. Look at Germany's wealthy retired crowd. Traveling like there is no tomorrow.

And they do spend quite a bit on new cars as well. They must be SUV's these days.
I belong to this retired crowd. But I am not wealthy. Most people of my age group have been working for 45 years, not only contributed to the state pension,often receive a
company pension, to which they also contributed. In addition the state has supported the building up of savings, People have life insurance which is paid out at retirement. In case that both, husband and wife, have worked, this builds up. The " wealthy " did not get it for free. But there is another very important factor - the majority of people live in rented appartements, and never had downpayments, and therefore were able to save money for their retirement. Money, they now spend. As for cheap travel - I
have just spent three days in Athens, and was lucky to book a discount fare with Aegean. For transportation and accomodation I spent almost 500 Euro, I do not consider this being cheap.
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Old 6th Apr 2020, 18:09
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You seem to prove my point. Being able to spend money for travel.
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Old 8th Apr 2020, 19:51
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Latest news is that LOT – unsurprisingly – wants to drop out of the deal and is making demands now to step away in favour of a potential investor.
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Old 13th Apr 2020, 14:38
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They are out now.
https://www.reuters.com/article/heal...-idUSL5N2C12HW
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Old 13th Apr 2020, 19:06
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Government’s loan is due the day after tomorrow, so time to come up with a solution.
Probably going to be nationalized, at least temporary.
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