Delta emergency @ LAX, dumps fuel on school playground.
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The POC victim angle will inevitably be exploited by local activists and politicians.
From the LA Times
Student Marianna Torres, 11, center, cries as she evacuates Park Avenue Elementary School after jet fuel fell on the school in Cudahy on Tuesday.
(Damian Dovarganes / Associated Press)
By MATT HAMILTON , JACLYN COSGROVE
JAN. 17, 2020 5:36 PM
Air quality regulators in Southern California slapped Delta Air Lines with a formal notice of violation after one of its jets dumped 15,000 gallons of fuel over multiple schools while making an emergency landing this week at Los Angeles International Airport.
The South Coast Air Quality Management District accused Delta of causing a public nuisance when the Shanghai-bound flight released the fuel in a mist that injured children at schools and libraries and prompted alarm in communities across Greater L.A.
Delta did not immediately respond to a request for comment. Earlier this week, Delta spokesman Adrian Gee said the pilot was forced to dump fuel over the urban area to reduce the plane’s weight before the emergency landing at LAX.
South Coast AQMD said that before issuing the violation, it investigated the release and learned of exposure to jet fuel at the Cudahy Public Library, two schools in El Rancho Unified School District, and several schools in the Los Angeles Unified School District. The violation notice was served Friday on an environmental specialist with Delta, and it’s an enforcement action that can ultimately lead to civil penalties.
“The company can choose to make voluntary measures,” said AQMD spokesman Bradley Whitaker. For example, Delta could find ways to reduce pollution emissions or impose practices that prevent further public nuisances. “If there isn’t a settlement reached, then we can file a lawsuit,” the spokesman said.
The move by the air quality district comes the same day that four teachers at an elementary school in Cudahy filed a lawsuit in Los Angeles County Superior Court, alleging that Delta’s discharge of toxic fuel has resulted in physical and emotional distress.
At least 20 Park Avenue Elementary School studentswere hit by the jet fuel Tuesday morning when Flight 89 abruptly reversed course to LAX shortly after taking off for Shanghai.
The pilot radioed the control tower to say that there was an engine problem but responded “Negative” when asked whether he needed time to burn off or dump fuel to reduce weight before an emergency landing. Less than 20 minutes later, the jet sprayed fuel over Park Avenue and the surrounding area.
The incident sparked outrage in a community that’s been at the center of environmental injustices for decades in Los Angeles County. Dozens of people —many of them children — were treated by paramedics, but no one was seriously injured.
Rep. Lucille Roybal-Allard, whose district includes Cudahy, told The Times she wants to ensure that the incident is thoroughly investigated and that the community is provided with clear answers about what transpired.
“The outrage that the community is feeling and that I am feeling are based on the history of those communities, which are always victim to one environmental crisis after another,” Roybal-Allard (D-Downey) said. “Is this just another example of that? Or is this something that really in fact could not be avoided? And that’s the answer we don’t know yet.”
The incident sparked outrage in a community that’s been at the center of environmental injustices for decades in Los Angeles County. Dozens of people —many of them children — were treated by paramedics, but no one was seriously injured [although it was claimed on another forum that a teacher twisted her ankle running to her lawyer's office - Airbubba].
Rep. Lucille Roybal-Allard, whose district includes Cudahy, told The Times she wants to ensure that the incident is thoroughly investigated and that the community is provided with clear answers about what transpired.
“The outrage that the community is feeling and that I am feeling are based on the history of those communities, which are always victim to one environmental crisis after another,” Roybal-Allard (D-Downey) said. “Is this just another example of that?
Rep. Lucille Roybal-Allard, whose district includes Cudahy, told The Times she wants to ensure that the incident is thoroughly investigated and that the community is provided with clear answers about what transpired.
“The outrage that the community is feeling and that I am feeling are based on the history of those communities, which are always victim to one environmental crisis after another,” Roybal-Allard (D-Downey) said. “Is this just another example of that?
Delta is cited by air quality regulators after jet dropped 15,000 gallons of fuel over L.A.
Student Marianna Torres, 11, center, cries as she evacuates Park Avenue Elementary School after jet fuel fell on the school in Cudahy on Tuesday.
(Damian Dovarganes / Associated Press)
By MATT HAMILTON , JACLYN COSGROVE
JAN. 17, 2020 5:36 PM
Air quality regulators in Southern California slapped Delta Air Lines with a formal notice of violation after one of its jets dumped 15,000 gallons of fuel over multiple schools while making an emergency landing this week at Los Angeles International Airport.
The South Coast Air Quality Management District accused Delta of causing a public nuisance when the Shanghai-bound flight released the fuel in a mist that injured children at schools and libraries and prompted alarm in communities across Greater L.A.
Delta did not immediately respond to a request for comment. Earlier this week, Delta spokesman Adrian Gee said the pilot was forced to dump fuel over the urban area to reduce the plane’s weight before the emergency landing at LAX.
South Coast AQMD said that before issuing the violation, it investigated the release and learned of exposure to jet fuel at the Cudahy Public Library, two schools in El Rancho Unified School District, and several schools in the Los Angeles Unified School District. The violation notice was served Friday on an environmental specialist with Delta, and it’s an enforcement action that can ultimately lead to civil penalties.
“The company can choose to make voluntary measures,” said AQMD spokesman Bradley Whitaker. For example, Delta could find ways to reduce pollution emissions or impose practices that prevent further public nuisances. “If there isn’t a settlement reached, then we can file a lawsuit,” the spokesman said.
The move by the air quality district comes the same day that four teachers at an elementary school in Cudahy filed a lawsuit in Los Angeles County Superior Court, alleging that Delta’s discharge of toxic fuel has resulted in physical and emotional distress.
At least 20 Park Avenue Elementary School studentswere hit by the jet fuel Tuesday morning when Flight 89 abruptly reversed course to LAX shortly after taking off for Shanghai.
The pilot radioed the control tower to say that there was an engine problem but responded “Negative” when asked whether he needed time to burn off or dump fuel to reduce weight before an emergency landing. Less than 20 minutes later, the jet sprayed fuel over Park Avenue and the surrounding area.
The incident sparked outrage in a community that’s been at the center of environmental injustices for decades in Los Angeles County. Dozens of people —many of them children — were treated by paramedics, but no one was seriously injured.
Rep. Lucille Roybal-Allard, whose district includes Cudahy, told The Times she wants to ensure that the incident is thoroughly investigated and that the community is provided with clear answers about what transpired.
“The outrage that the community is feeling and that I am feeling are based on the history of those communities, which are always victim to one environmental crisis after another,” Roybal-Allard (D-Downey) said. “Is this just another example of that? Or is this something that really in fact could not be avoided? And that’s the answer we don’t know yet.”
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.....................the only thing you need to land a plane is the wheels down and some flap if you have it. And VRef of about 160 which covers any situation. Nothing else at all. No FMC, Not performance data computers. No moving maps. Just look out of the window and land it pdq.
Having observed training over several years recently I have been amazed at the lack of urgency with getting back on terra firms after a severe failure..........
R Guy
Having observed training over several years recently I have been amazed at the lack of urgency with getting back on terra firms after a severe failure..........
R Guy
Plastic PPRuNer
Lawsuits of course - get some money, pic in the papers.
I bet that all that happened was the kids got an aroma of AVTUR - end of story.
Safe enough to swim in briefly, just don't breathe any in or swallow it (and no smoking....)
Next thing we'll be advising parents to lock the children in the car when refilling or wait 300m upwind!
Can't wait for the first electrocution when recharging an electric car (it'll come alright)
Why are people such wimps these days?
Mac
I bet that all that happened was the kids got an aroma of AVTUR - end of story.
Safe enough to swim in briefly, just don't breathe any in or swallow it (and no smoking....)
Next thing we'll be advising parents to lock the children in the car when refilling or wait 300m upwind!
Can't wait for the first electrocution when recharging an electric car (it'll come alright)
Why are people such wimps these days?
Mac
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Well I'm still here and I have spent 30 odd years working with the stuff including crawling around in VC 10 wing tanks with inches of fuel trapped in them and that was in the days before health and safety intervened. I see the teachers are now suing, at some point someone needs to give these people a reality check, lives were at risk.
As for smoking, heck you would often smell like a bowser, but at the time one smoked and the chances of catching fire was nigh on impossible, we even tried lighting a rag soaked in the stuff.
As for smoking, heck you would often smell like a bowser, but at the time one smoked and the chances of catching fire was nigh on impossible, we even tried lighting a rag soaked in the stuff.
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"I see the teachers are now suing, at some point someone needs to give these people a reality check, lives were at risk." Indeed. It could have cost the lives of all 167 on board, and could have even crashed on the school. WOULD THEY RATHER HAVE HAD THAT HAPPEN?
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What R Guy has to say about getting it back on the ground ASAP is very sound advice indeed. Of course there are checklists and SOPs that must be followed. And even for the most severe emergencies, there is usually time for a careful analysis, as was done by the QANTAS crew before landing their A380 at Singapore. But there are also times when the SOPs may no longer be appropriate. And it is on those very rare occasions that crews really earn their salaries.
There can even come a time when the only option may be to 'throw the checklist out of the window' and just stuff it on the ground. I would not normally advocate such an extreme measure, but it worth thinking about.
Have any of the readers of this post ever been in the situation where there is a fire on board? Or when the wing is burning as it was in that 'WE' event? Have any of you stopped to consider what are the absolute minimum actions in such a case? It is worth contemplating that possibility and having at the back of your minds exactly what are the minimum essential items on the type you fly that must be carried out to ensure a safe landing.
You never know, it may come in useful one day.
There can even come a time when the only option may be to 'throw the checklist out of the window' and just stuff it on the ground. I would not normally advocate such an extreme measure, but it worth thinking about.
Have any of the readers of this post ever been in the situation where there is a fire on board? Or when the wing is burning as it was in that 'WE' event? Have any of you stopped to consider what are the absolute minimum actions in such a case? It is worth contemplating that possibility and having at the back of your minds exactly what are the minimum essential items on the type you fly that must be carried out to ensure a safe landing.
You never know, it may come in useful one day.
Also wanting to stay out of volleys about throwing checklist out, landing without delay - but quoted the above as a context for this:
So when I read the forecasts of autonomous, self-operating transport category airliners, as well as specific reports about advances in the art and science of making aviators unnecessary in such operations, should I believe that some bright young app-writer already is close to writing the sub-routines (or whatever the parts of computer code involved should be called) that would have handled this fuel jettison situation better, or at least as well, and fool-proofedly, as compared to pilots of the human variety?
Inquiring minds want to know (even SLF + attys).
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As the teachers tearfully read from prepared scripts:
“I started yelling for my students to come back inside the building,” one teacher told reporters at Friday’s news conference. “I didn’t know where the smell was coming from. I thought, ‘Oh my God, it must be a terrorist attack.'”
“My students initially thought it was rain and began looking up only to have the noxious liquid overwhelm our eyes, mouth, nose and skin,” another added.
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"LA" is all of the above and more. The affected area is a low-income area populated mostly by Hispanics, so you can probably guess that there aren't many Trump supporters, and California has had Democratic governors since Arnold Schwarzenegger left office in 2011. I would sincerely hope that politics would be irrelevant in this kind of case.
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For what it's worth, the KC-135, with a dump nozzle of around 4" diameter, and four hydraulically powered pumps, could dump 1000 gallons per minute, or around 7000 lbs.
At the press conference Ms. Allred stated that 'the Delta pilot' released fuel on the elementary students at 'thousands of pounds per second'.
As the teachers tearfully read from prepared scripts:
“I started yelling for my students to come back inside the building,” one teacher told reporters at Friday’s news conference. “I didn’t know where the smell was coming from. I thought, ‘Oh my God, it must be a terrorist attack.'”
“My students initially thought it was rain and began looking up only to have the noxious liquid overwhelm our eyes, mouth, nose and skin,” another added.
https://cbsloc.al/361OSsx
As the teachers tearfully read from prepared scripts:
“I started yelling for my students to come back inside the building,” one teacher told reporters at Friday’s news conference. “I didn’t know where the smell was coming from. I thought, ‘Oh my God, it must be a terrorist attack.'”
“My students initially thought it was rain and began looking up only to have the noxious liquid overwhelm our eyes, mouth, nose and skin,” another added.
https://cbsloc.al/361OSsx
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Not on an A330, they are at about mid wing.
[rhetorical question]; why have I never been trained or briefed in the SIM to throw all the checklists and SOPs out the window and just get it back on the ground? Even an uncontainable fire has a checklist. Nor have I ever been criticised for actioning a complete checklist - in fact, I am usually bollocked for jumping parts or missing parts out in my 'excitement'.
[rhetorical question]; why have I never been trained or briefed in the SIM to throw all the checklists and SOPs out the window and just get it back on the ground? Even an uncontainable fire has a checklist. Nor have I ever been criticised for actioning a complete checklist - in fact, I am usually bollocked for jumping parts or missing parts out in my 'excitement'.
Uncontainable Fire Checklist? Have not seen that one so please post it. It is a great step forward because up to now I have never seen one.
That must be why they don't discuss it in your airline.
After 'JL' 737-200 at Manchester 1986? (and because Whiskey Echo was not that long before, 1968, but never forgotten) and 'JL' happily did not get airborne, but nearly did, and even then many people died, we had a sim session of unconfined fire in an engine affecting the fuselage. Bit like Concorde. Now to run the entire checklist takes about 20-45 minutes depending on how frightened you are or how competent I guess. So the trainers at the time who had considerable latitude in how they ran a session demonstrated that you only need the gear down and some flap and about 160 knots to get back on the ground. It is true when you think about it. Now of course those trainers are now flying with the angels and I will soon be joining them, but the truth is, that is all you need to land a jet safely. In an extreme situation.
What is there in the checklist that is going to be more important than a raging fire? So it is back to the good old airmanship thing I suppose. Even recently (2017) I have heard trainers asking students what they would do if the fire did not go out (as it always does on the good old sim) and passengers are reporting an inferno on the wing. OK, this is in the briefing room. And they discuss it and agree that they cannot sit there for the best part of an hour running checklist after checklist until the wing falls off. Thats it really. I know what I would do. But then I am not allowed to any more, so I just try to pass on a bit of lateral thinking to those who follow, as was kindly done to me. Passing on the knowledge pool and at least getting a bit of thinking going on about non normal situations beyond the QRH. There is a chapter about this in the Boeing QRH which basically says that there will be situations where the QRH is no longer applicable due to multiple failures and then the Captain has to decide what to do. I will get the passage and post it.
OK it is some time since I flew for a real airline so I have missed this new checklist, but it cannot be too different from the one that I describe due to time constraints?
All the best
R Guy
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Here's the Allred press conference about the lawsuit against Delta.
She makes the 'thousands of pounds a second' assertion at about 3:10 into the recording. Obviously a mis-statement but will probably not be fact checked by the sympathetic media audience.
There are repeated mentions of 'the pilot' and she seems to infer that he intentionally dumped fuel without notifying ATC. Our lawyers and sea lawyers can parse the language that she uses to infer liability in this regrettable incident.
Is this the classic shakedown in the media to force a quick settlement and put the bad publicity to bed? Or in a progressive California court environment would Delta be able to drag this out with endless motions and avoid a trial with teachers and tissues and expert witnesses on the health hazards of unburned aerosol hydrocarbons?
I presume this case could also go to U.S. District Court under diversity jurisdiction rules.
Would 'the pilot' have personal liability if he was acting in accordance with his job duties and not 'on a frolic of his own' as the FAA lawyer commented about the Northwest pilots who overflew MSP years ago and had their tickets pulled?
She makes the 'thousands of pounds a second' assertion at about 3:10 into the recording. Obviously a mis-statement but will probably not be fact checked by the sympathetic media audience.
There are repeated mentions of 'the pilot' and she seems to infer that he intentionally dumped fuel without notifying ATC. Our lawyers and sea lawyers can parse the language that she uses to infer liability in this regrettable incident.
Is this the classic shakedown in the media to force a quick settlement and put the bad publicity to bed? Or in a progressive California court environment would Delta be able to drag this out with endless motions and avoid a trial with teachers and tissues and expert witnesses on the health hazards of unburned aerosol hydrocarbons?
I presume this case could also go to U.S. District Court under diversity jurisdiction rules.
Would 'the pilot' have personal liability if he was acting in accordance with his job duties and not 'on a frolic of his own' as the FAA lawyer commented about the Northwest pilots who overflew MSP years ago and had their tickets pulled?
Last edited by Airbubba; 18th Jan 2020 at 17:42.
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According to Delta, the plane began dropping fuel at an elevation of 8,000 feet and continued at least until it hit the 2,300-foot mark. The FAA confirmed to CBS News it also found that the Delta crew did not tell air traffic control the plane needed to dump fuel.
We have the ATC recordings of that period all the way down to landing and there is no mention of fuel dump that I hear. Sounds like a major miscommunication. 
I suspect most on this side of the pond already know this, but for the benefit of those who don't, Gloria Allred is well known as one of the most famous, notorious, and preeminent of the ambulance chaser class of lawyers.
As WillowRun notes, all so predictable.
As WillowRun notes, all so predictable.
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I'm finding all of the outrage over the certainty of lawsuits and the mockery of the claimants and their attorneys rather amusing. It's amusing for several reasons:
1. Virtually the entire population of the Western world, with the exception of workers in industries such as aviation, naturally see any exposure to petroleum-based fuels as a health hazard. That should really be obvious to everyone here, at least to everyone who is able to take a moment to view the situation through the eyes of ordinary laypeople.
2. Our legal system (to include essentially all of the English-speaking world) is deliberately designed and organized as an adversarial one. It is a feature of such a system that people who feel they have been harmed or wronged begin their quest for redress with exaggerated claims of suffering and maximum demonization of contemplated defendants. The processes that follow almost always bring the narrative closer to reality and rational analysis. This is just how it works. If you want a system that encourages dispassionate search for truth and fairness, you want a different system than we have.
3. Plaintiff's lawyers are paid to maximize their client's damage awards and the ones who do that best are often masters of melodrama. Again, it's a feature of the system. Milquetoast attorneys don't get big verdicts and aren't likely to be sought by lawyer-shopping clients.
4. Public servants and elected officials must be seen to be championing the causes of their constituents. That's how they keep their jobs, get re-elected, have support to advance their careers, etc. Another feature of the system.
5. The media make money, keep jobs, etc. by luring eyes and ears and attention to their various outlets and publications. And the masses are most attracted to hype. It's a matter of human nature.
None of this should be a surprise to anyone who is reasonably familiar with Western culture. And none of it is going to change, much, as long as our culture is organized as it is and has been for a very long time. Don't hold your breath.
Oh, just by the way, the people some of you are mocking are virtually certain to be significantly compensated for the injuries they believe they have suffered. That's going to happen because the prospective defendants have lawyers and accountants who know perfectly well that there's no way to avoid that. They can look into their crystal calls and visualize a courtroom where plaintiff's experts tell horror stories about the dangers of Jet A and show the impressionable jury images of associated suffering and typical MSDS documents for the fuel:
http://www.cpchem.com/msds/100000014588_SDS_US_EN.PDF
1. Virtually the entire population of the Western world, with the exception of workers in industries such as aviation, naturally see any exposure to petroleum-based fuels as a health hazard. That should really be obvious to everyone here, at least to everyone who is able to take a moment to view the situation through the eyes of ordinary laypeople.
2. Our legal system (to include essentially all of the English-speaking world) is deliberately designed and organized as an adversarial one. It is a feature of such a system that people who feel they have been harmed or wronged begin their quest for redress with exaggerated claims of suffering and maximum demonization of contemplated defendants. The processes that follow almost always bring the narrative closer to reality and rational analysis. This is just how it works. If you want a system that encourages dispassionate search for truth and fairness, you want a different system than we have.
3. Plaintiff's lawyers are paid to maximize their client's damage awards and the ones who do that best are often masters of melodrama. Again, it's a feature of the system. Milquetoast attorneys don't get big verdicts and aren't likely to be sought by lawyer-shopping clients.
4. Public servants and elected officials must be seen to be championing the causes of their constituents. That's how they keep their jobs, get re-elected, have support to advance their careers, etc. Another feature of the system.
5. The media make money, keep jobs, etc. by luring eyes and ears and attention to their various outlets and publications. And the masses are most attracted to hype. It's a matter of human nature.
None of this should be a surprise to anyone who is reasonably familiar with Western culture. And none of it is going to change, much, as long as our culture is organized as it is and has been for a very long time. Don't hold your breath.
Oh, just by the way, the people some of you are mocking are virtually certain to be significantly compensated for the injuries they believe they have suffered. That's going to happen because the prospective defendants have lawyers and accountants who know perfectly well that there's no way to avoid that. They can look into their crystal calls and visualize a courtroom where plaintiff's experts tell horror stories about the dangers of Jet A and show the impressionable jury images of associated suffering and typical MSDS documents for the fuel:
http://www.cpchem.com/msds/100000014588_SDS_US_EN.PDF
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The FAA and his employer may not be totally charmed by his actions, of course.
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For the newbies please take retired guys advice carefully.
There was an uncontained fire on WE The billion dollar question is why? Read the report especially about the position of the fuel control switch on the affected engine.
A nod to Ms Harrison your bravery knew no bounds.
please fly the jet action the memory drill accurately and clean up. The need for an immediate return is remote and yet the scope for cocking it up rushing is massive.
consider the following:
surge on departure decision to return below transition Alt
Unanunciated fuel jettison checklist actioned up to but before fuel jettison complete. Checklist blanked from lower EICAS.
Aircraft flown around the pattern descent and approach checklist omitted
Landing checklist called for...... guess what pops up? Yep the fuel jett checklist. Now the crew cease fuel jett.
just a thought.
There was an uncontained fire on WE The billion dollar question is why? Read the report especially about the position of the fuel control switch on the affected engine.
A nod to Ms Harrison your bravery knew no bounds.
please fly the jet action the memory drill accurately and clean up. The need for an immediate return is remote and yet the scope for cocking it up rushing is massive.
consider the following:
surge on departure decision to return below transition Alt
Unanunciated fuel jettison checklist actioned up to but before fuel jettison complete. Checklist blanked from lower EICAS.
Aircraft flown around the pattern descent and approach checklist omitted
Landing checklist called for...... guess what pops up? Yep the fuel jett checklist. Now the crew cease fuel jett.
just a thought.