Flybe in trouble ?
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In the house
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I will never say good riddance as I feel for the crews and staff involved but let’s not kid ourselves it is a good airline.
I recently got charged £35 for my cabin bag as it was too big to fit in the stupid abnormally small gauges. To add insult to injury, I quite literally walked it to the baggage handlers myself at the side of the dash 8. 35 quid for 6 kg bag on a 30 minute flight? Unbelievable.
60% of the passengers had the same problem as I did and probably (like myself) said I’m not flying with this tin pot organisation again.
I recently got charged £35 for my cabin bag as it was too big to fit in the stupid abnormally small gauges. To add insult to injury, I quite literally walked it to the baggage handlers myself at the side of the dash 8. 35 quid for 6 kg bag on a 30 minute flight? Unbelievable.
60% of the passengers had the same problem as I did and probably (like myself) said I’m not flying with this tin pot organisation again.
The government may not realise that we're running out of scheduled airlines. They don't survive. The last new one that wasn't a foreign operator with a UK AOC was BA Cityflyer (2007) and that was setup with aid from BA. Before that the last original independent was BlueIslands in the Channel Islands. All the later ones since have failed. That might indicate just how hard it is to make a profit in the airline world. The government should probably not bail out PLCs but they shouldn't put unreasonable tax and compensations rules and then hold their hands back when the Airline cant cope.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Earth (just)
Posts: 722
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Homonculus, as far as I can make out it will be both. Happy to be corrected though.
Even if APD is reduced/abolished then I am not sure ticket prices will come down. Flybe is unable to make a profit at current ticket prices so in my opinion any reduction in APD will not (or very little) be reflected in ticket prices. Instead the extra money will be used to shore up the company finances.
Sorry WCF, I disagree. If they can’t turn a profit now then taking the tax element off the ticket will not make the company anymore profitable. Even if that ticket is more attractive, the total below the line stays the same.
Even if APD is reduced/abolished then I am not sure ticket prices will come down. Flybe is unable to make a profit at current ticket prices so in my opinion any reduction in APD will not (or very little) be reflected in ticket prices. Instead the extra money will be used to shore up the company finances.
Sorry WCF, I disagree. If they can’t turn a profit now then taking the tax element off the ticket will not make the company anymore profitable. Even if that ticket is more attractive, the total below the line stays the same.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,464
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We will have to agree to disagree then but my belief is that change one thing and the whole dynamic changes. After all profit is linked to sales! In order to be more profitable (or to recover from loss making) you need to be more efficient and sell more. It's quite simple really.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 309
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WCF, we will agree to disagree.
Profit may be linked to sales but if your sales are below cost price then you can sell all you want and it still won’t make a profit. It is pretty clear that the current ticket price is not providing a profit for the company.
Profit may be linked to sales but if your sales are below cost price then you can sell all you want and it still won’t make a profit. It is pretty clear that the current ticket price is not providing a profit for the company.
Found them efficient, friendly and punctual.
Actually prefer them to Ryaniar with whom I generally fly. The two I avoid are the Orange one and big airlines.
City Jet - aerlingus - also good.
Good luck to them.
City Jet - aerlingus - also good.
Good luck to them.
..and there lies the problem...
Low cost airlines have radically changed the travelling public's idea of what a "proper" air fare should be.
If fares had risen in line with inflation since, say, 1985, fares would generally be around 30-40% higher than they are now. but Joe Public expects to get to the Costas or even Paris or Amsterdam for under £100 rtn.
Too many airlines chasing too few passengers prepared to pay the going rate, and so they are all in a race to the bottom, and sooner or later, they will all perish...
Flybe is just another airline going down that route....
its not nice writing this, but its the uncomfortable truth...
Low cost airlines have radically changed the travelling public's idea of what a "proper" air fare should be.
If fares had risen in line with inflation since, say, 1985, fares would generally be around 30-40% higher than they are now. but Joe Public expects to get to the Costas or even Paris or Amsterdam for under £100 rtn.
Too many airlines chasing too few passengers prepared to pay the going rate, and so they are all in a race to the bottom, and sooner or later, they will all perish...
Flybe is just another airline going down that route....
its not nice writing this, but its the uncomfortable truth...
One hopes that that the government is not rewarding Flybe's years of mismanagement without giving the same benefit to other better run domestic carriers who are also doing it tough? Or that they will agree deferment of 100m of APD debt (what chance of the public ever getting that back..) without a guarantee from owners Virgin etc?
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Bass rock, east side.
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Did Connect Airways(virgin) not buy Flybe last year expecting it to fail and therefore gain the FLYBE LHR slots it so craves????
Last edited by ALTSEL; 14th Jan 2020 at 16:45. Reason: .
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Warwick
Posts: 197
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Reducing or abolishing taxation is not going to help Flybe because it will apply to all airlines, thereby retaining the level playing field. If supply of seats exceeds demand the only way to stay in business is to reduce supply, someone has to drop out.
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Leeds
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flybe have very few competitors on their routes, they are rarely in competition with other airlines, The issues at Flybe are not related to competition or filling seats, They have ridiculous legacy debts from years of shocking management and poor decisions from CEO after CEO.
The majority of their business is from large companies in the UK not your average pax en route for a weekend away in Edinburgh.
The majority of their business is from large companies in the UK not your average pax en route for a weekend away in Edinburgh.
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Aalborg
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You're assuming Flybe and others pass on the reduction in APD to the customer.
Flybe ARE selling seats and don't have competition on most routes... why cut the price, a competitors big jet on most of our routes wouldn't work?
It's legacy overheads that are killing Flybe get rid of those once and for all and move on.....
Anyway I don't know how to run an airline just fly a plane so my opinion is pretty worthless in business matters.
Flybe ARE selling seats and don't have competition on most routes... why cut the price, a competitors big jet on most of our routes wouldn't work?
It's legacy overheads that are killing Flybe get rid of those once and for all and move on.....
Anyway I don't know how to run an airline just fly a plane so my opinion is pretty worthless in business matters.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: East Midlands
Posts: 477
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
According to https://www.statista.com/statistics/...it-before-tax/ Flybe made a pre tax profit in only three of the last ten years (amounting to £35.4m) while pretax losses in the other seven years totalled £179.4m. Is there any business turn around that would enable it to repay £100m in back APD over the next three years, other than via significant ongoing support from its new owners?
Good news.
Fares will go up a bit.
Pax Tax Duty down.
Let's hope this government has realised that Aviation shouldn't be made the whipping boy for the climate change view.
Fares will go up a bit.
Pax Tax Duty down.
Let's hope this government has realised that Aviation shouldn't be made the whipping boy for the climate change view.
Very pleased to read that FlyBe lives to fight another day.
From the BBC News it seems that Virgin Atlantic and Stobart Group have agreed to pump additional finance in to the airline, whilst the Governement has only agreed to a review of the APD. Now to my cynical mind that means that there is no guarantee that the APD will be removed or reduced, though I suppose the words at the meeting from the Govt side must have offered some thing positive to entice Virgin and Stobart to put more money in. Will Boris and his gang deliver? Time will tell.
From the BBC News it seems that Virgin Atlantic and Stobart Group have agreed to pump additional finance in to the airline, whilst the Governement has only agreed to a review of the APD. Now to my cynical mind that means that there is no guarantee that the APD will be removed or reduced, though I suppose the words at the meeting from the Govt side must have offered some thing positive to entice Virgin and Stobart to put more money in. Will Boris and his gang deliver? Time will tell.
While I’m delighted for the staff at Flybe, one wonders why such a deal couldn’t have been done for Thomas Cook or Monarch? The business secretary even refused to meet with the board of Thomas Cook.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 887
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Because there were multiple alternatives to Thomas Cook and Monarch for passengers. There quite simply aren’t alternatives to Flybe for many of the regions.
No doubt the decision will upset the envirofundamentalists and that irritating Scandewegian Thunderbug child, but it is most definitely the correct, pragmatic solution.
Anyway I don't know how to run an airline just fly a plane so my opinion is pretty worthless in business matters.
If I don't pass VAT I collect from my customers to HMRC pdq, words like "fraud" and "jail" get used. What's so different about APD?