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Flybe in trouble ?

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Flybe in trouble ?

Old 6th Mar 2020, 13:48
  #341 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
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Originally Posted by RetiredBA/BY View Post

After all, we are spending billions on HS2 just to reduce journey time on a limited number of routes already quite well served.
That's not right. The main driver for HS2 is capacity. The lines out of Euston and Kings Cross are full up and HS2 will relieve them of long distance services freeing up space for local traffic and freight. The speed gain is a by product of building to modern rather than Victorian standards.
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 14:35
  #342 (permalink)  
 
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Retired BA/BY

I dont disagree with many of your points but not this:

The UK government should immediately nationalise FlyBe and resume this connectivity at the earliest time, like next week !
You could argue this is the removal of an airline from the market that was not being run well and could not manage its debts. The establishment of a Nationalised Flybe would only impact on the profits of those other businesses, Eastern, Loganair, Blue Islands and Aurigny and thereby put them to the wall. If the demand is there, capacity will fill it. There are Public Service Obligation routes that the taxpayer already subsidises but apart from that, leave it alone and let the market find its natural balance. the gaps left by BMI, Monarch and Thomas Cook have all been filled by other providers where there is demand.
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 18:34
  #343 (permalink)  
 
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To the best of my knowledge, Eastern Loganair Blue Islands and Aurigny, are all loss makers
Aurigny has had millions of pounds pumped int it by it' owners the govenmet of Guernsey
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 18:41
  #344 (permalink)  
 
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Can anybody expand on the value of the LHR slots that I assume Virgin have gained from this debacle - when VS got involved recently it seemed obvious to me that it was the long term objective to harvest these slots ultimately- why am I the only cynic regarding this big factor??
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 19:25
  #345 (permalink)  
 
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Virgin At lantic are contractin not expanding
They lost more tha 12 million pounds year end 2018.
They've also had to write off their investment in Connect Airways.
Based upon what Stobart Group are reporting as an equal shareholder, Virgin will have lost about 50 million pounds.
Bit a price to pay for a few slots wouldn' you think?
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 20:38
  #346 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bean View Post
Virgin At lantic are contractin not expanding
They lost more tha 12 million pounds year end 2018.
They've also had to write off their investment in Connect Airways.
Based upon what Stobart Group are reporting as an equal shareholder, Virgin will have lost about 50 million pounds.
Bit a price to pay for a few slots wouldn' you think?
I believe 1 slot at LHR is around $50million , not sure how many FlyBe had but I wouldn’t be surprised if Virgin made money
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 20:42
  #347 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RetiredBA/BY View Post
So, it is clear that FlyBe was an important part of the UK infrastructure linking many smaller and “ remote “ airports around the country thus providing a valuable essential connectivity facility.

Heres my take:

The UK government should immediately nationalise FlyBe and resume this connectivity at the earliest time, like next week !

After all, we are spending billions on HS2 just to reduce journey time on a limited number of routes already quite well served.

The government spent billions supporting mismanaged banks.

It intends to nationalise a failing, failed northern railway network. Cost ?

We are spending many millions on so called “ smart “ motorways. Bloody dangerous in my view.

We throw away billions on overseas aid much of which we know is wasted.

Time to support our own people and supporting FB and the connectivity they provided would be peanuts in comparison to the above.

... and if my proposals are. In contradiction to EU rules and they kick up, tell Brussels to get lost, we are leaving, have left the EU and this is an internal UK matter

A nationalised FB would be NO threat to Ryanair or BA but if OReilly and Walsh whinge about it offer THEM the chance to run the new FB which would then have no routes duplicating , say BA and Ryanair.

If they make a profit they can keep it, if they make loss so be it, thvey had their chance and their losses prove their whingeing was baseless.

Government support for essential “ connectivity” flights is not new as the Norwegian Government and Wideroe are well aware.

Time for some “out of the box “ and creative thinking by Johnson and Schapps if they are really serious about connectivity.
Amusing rant, but not one which has any likelihood of happening!

What do people think is the rational public policy response to the FlyBE collapse (within the bounds of reason)?

I would like to see APD cut in half (so to £6.50) for domestic flights; and scrapped altogether for domestic flights where no realistic alternative than flying exists (which could be defined as no rail connection between relevant conurbations of less than 3 hours duration - which would effectively lift it entirely for BHD, JER, GCI, NQY but not EXT, SOU, ...).

Can anyone explain what the current special APD provisions are for certain Scottish airports? Is APD devolved to the Scottish government?
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 20:46
  #348 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KeyPilot View Post
Can anyone explain what the current special APD provisions are for certain Scottish airports? Is APD devolved to the Scottish government?
Google is your friend:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/exemptio...passenger-duty

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Old 6th Mar 2020, 20:48
  #349 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by nicolai View Post
APD is both an environmental tax and a revenue raising measure. Why should flights inside the UK be exempt when flights to outside are not? What makes aviation inside the UK so much more special than to outside the UK? Why is my London to Edinburgh flight any different from my London to Amsterdam flight for tax or environmental purposes?
Because aviation inside the UK comprises UK public transport, which is a matter of UK public policy; and travel form the UK to other countries is not (or at least, to nowhere near the same extent).

Countries build roads, railways, etc. to connect their people, almost always with some element of public finance. It's just part and parcel of being a country. And yet, when aviation achieves the same ends, not only does this receive no public finance, but the state seeks to levy a tax upon it! This is illogical, and wrong.
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 20:55
  #350 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chris2303 View Post
So it is. Thanks.

Never realised it only applied one way. So INV-LHR is zero rated, however full rate applies on LHR-INV. So in effect it halves the APD (I grant that it will eliminate it entirely for the intra-highland & island flights).

I think the story of the FlyBE collapse, plus the parlous history of UK domestic air carriers, is such that APD on domestic flights really needs overhauling.
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 21:12
  #351 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bean View Post
To the best of my knowledge, Eastern Loganair Blue Islands and Aurigny, are all loss makers
Aurigny has had millions of pounds pumped int it by it' owners the govenmet of Guernsey
Aurigny is there solely for the sake of Guernsey PLC and subsidised appropriately. It's not there to step in and operate any non Guernsey routes as they don't benefit Guernsey.
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Old 7th Mar 2020, 09:59
  #352 (permalink)  
 
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Largely true but, it might benefit by operating a few more profitable routes , such as ones from Jersey . The question is whether inter island rivalry would blinker the States of Guernsey & prevent them from allowing their airline to operate more commercially. It would, for example, allow AUR to at least double the revenue it generates on Exeter services , if the route was triangular via Jersey. Generally, AUR could do with more routes (ex BEE ones ?); however, this would stretch them &, it might be suggested, would expose the quality of their management more obviously than it, seemingly, does now. I am not suggesting that the management is poor - but the airline continues to lose a lot of money on the restricted number of routes which it already serves ! The same is true of Blue Island.
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Old 7th Mar 2020, 14:20
  #353 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by kcockayne View Post
Largely true but, it might benefit by operating a few more profitable routes , such as ones from Jersey . The question is whether inter island rivalry would blinker the States of Guernsey & prevent them from allowing their airline to operate more commercially. It would, for example, allow AUR to at least double the revenue it generates on Exeter services , if the route was triangular via Jersey. Generally, AUR could do with more routes (ex BEE ones ?); however, this would stretch them &, it might be suggested, would expose the quality of their management more obviously than it, seemingly, does now. I am not suggesting that the management is poor - but the airline continues to lose a lot of money on the restricted number of routes which it already serves ! The same is true of Blue Island.
Agreed, but splitting the revenue take with Blueislands for example on a Jersey/Exeter route might mean no profits for either. Specially in the winter.
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Old 7th Mar 2020, 18:06
  #354 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bean View Post
To the best of my knowledge, Eastern Loganair Blue Islands and Aurigny, are all loss makers
Aurigny has had millions of pounds pumped int it by it' owners the govenmet of Guernsey
Loganair made a loss in the year that Flybe/Eastern tried to do them over on the Islands routes (although it cost both of them considerably more), otherwise they’ve been profitable for some time.
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Old 7th Mar 2020, 22:13
  #355 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KeyPilot View Post

I would like to see APD cut in half (so to £6.50) for domestic flights; and scrapped altogether for domestic flights where no realistic alternative than flying exists
I’d like to see APD multiplied tenfold to start to address the appalling consequences of global warming. The fact that I make some (increasingly less, year on year, and deliberately so) of my income from aviation doesn’t stop me seeing the unsustainable damage it does to our planet.

We need far fewer airlines, far fewer airplanes, far fewer flights. We need to learn not to travel, the same way we need to learn not to make other dumb decisions, which are raping our childrens’ futures. Our wallets can deliver that message quite powerfully.
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Old 7th Mar 2020, 23:05
  #356 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by radiosutch View Post
Agreed, but splitting the revenue take with Blueislands for example on a Jersey/Exeter route might mean no profits for either. Specially in the winter.
I completely agree with you. In fact, I made this point in a separate post on this subject. What I was trying to do here was to highlight the fact that AUR might be in existence to serve the States of Guernsey’s purposes, but they would surely prefer the airline to make more money, even if that involved operating some Jersey services eg. Exeter - Jersey - Guernsey.
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Old 8th Mar 2020, 15:59
  #357 (permalink)  
 
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Sun 8 Mar approx 1320 hrs; Just seen a Q400 Flybe on final for SOU.
What's that all about? Already re-leesed to someone awaiting paint job?
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Old 8th Mar 2020, 17:46
  #358 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Auxtank View Post
Sun 8 Mar approx 1320 hrs; Just seen a Q400 Flybe on final for SOU.
What's that all about? Already re-leesed to someone awaiting paint job?
Not wishing to cast aspersions on your aircraft recognition skills, but are you sure it wasn't a Blue Islands ATR ? Two of those fly in Flybe livery, they won't have been repainted yet.

One of them, G-ISLL, landed at SOU at around 13:30.
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Old 10th Mar 2020, 22:43
  #359 (permalink)  
 
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Where is the FlyBe fleet now?
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Old 10th Mar 2020, 23:15
  #360 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by iainp View Post
Where is the FlyBe fleet now?
Aberdeen, Belfast, Birmingham, Dusseldorf, Edinburgh, Exeter, Heathrow, Isle of Man, Manchester, Newquay and Southampton.
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