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Flybe in trouble ?

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Flybe in trouble ?

Old 15th Jan 2020, 21:21
  #201 (permalink)  
 
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Well I fly from Newquay to Aberdeen and all he flights are always full. I also take issue with the stupid comment that London to cornwall is quicker by train. Just over an hour by plane and 6 hours by train. At least 6 hours by train. In fact if I have to use the train I drive an hour and half to Exeter rather than my local station which is 3 hours by train to exeter
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Old 15th Jan 2020, 21:29
  #202 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BEagle View Post
Definitely! Typical ba attitude reminiscent of the Dirty Tricks era. Whining Willie does not offer competition on most of Flybe's routes; I suspect his motives are to try and get ba's grubby hands on Flybe's Heathrow slots.

He should note that El Jefe's dumbing down of ba now means that it is seen as 'like flying Ryanair but without the charm'.
With which a close friend who flew Club Class to Cape Town last night would fully agree, texting me to say that he had flown in "a very old 747 in which bits kept falling off"!

Jack
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 04:28
  #203 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Modular Halil View Post
Virgin just wanted flybes slots down in LHR. .😬
I think this is probably correct.
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 05:29
  #204 (permalink)  
 
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Quite possibly, Hence the argument for a 3rd runway which Willie opposes of course to reduce meaningful competition. Virgin can't expand as it would like I suspect. But this is for another thread
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 10:13
  #205 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by lowfat View Post
Well I fly from Newquay to Aberdeen and all he flights are always full. I also take issue with the stupid comment that London to cornwall is quicker by train. Just over an hour by plane and 6 hours by train. At least 6 hours by train. In fact if I have to use the train I drive an hour and half to Exeter rather than my local station which is 3 hours by train to exeter
Do you just magically appear at the gate ready to board at Heathrow? You're looking at 2 hours to check in and another 30 minutes on top of that at least to get there. Taking the train isn't as quick but it's certainly comparable.
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 10:59
  #206 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mondayrunner View Post
Do you just magically appear at the gate ready to board at Heathrow? You're looking at 2 hours to check in and another 30 minutes on top of that at least to get there. Taking the train isn't as quick but it's certainly comparable.
"2 hours to check in" - from where?
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 12:17
  #207 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by lowfat View Post
Well I fly from Newquay to Aberdeen and all he flights are always full. I also take issue with the stupid comment that London to cornwall is quicker by train. Just over an hour by plane and 6 hours by train. At least 6 hours by train. In fact if I have to use the train I drive an hour and half to Exeter rather than my local station which is 3 hours by train to exeter
For Cornwall, yes.

Exeter to London (Paddington) is 2h15m +/- 15m on the train and 1h on the FlyBE, excluding the time for checkin at the airport. That's comparable enough that anyone with business in west-central London and not the Docklands may well take the train from Devon.

Of course the travel time is much worse if you have to get to Exeter airport from far away, and the trains in Devon and Cornwall other than the main line to Exeter are very slow as are the roads, but the train is still comparing well with the plane on that route.

Cornwall (or Devon) to Scotland is no contest, you'll be travelling all day on the train while the plane gets you there in 1h30m. Even to London, the plane from Newquay is rather faster.
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 13:42
  #208 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mondayrunner View Post
Do you just magically appear at the gate ready to board at Heathrow? You're looking at 2 hours to check in and another 30 minutes on top of that at least to get there. Taking the train isn't as quick but it's certainly comparable.
okay so https://www.buytickets.avantiwestcoa...mand=TimeTable
verses https://www.buytickets.avantiwestcoa...mand=TimeTable
1 hour before at Newquay is 17.40 so Today as I write this for £100 Ican be in London at 20.00 thats 2hours direct including your booking in time. Or get to the station for 1700 allowing 20 minutes till departure and arrive in London at midnight total time 7 hours 2 changes and £70.
Im sorry but case closed.

Last edited by lowfat; 16th Jan 2020 at 13:53.
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 15:19
  #209 (permalink)  
 
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Ho hum.

"Flybe to switch Newquay-Heathrow flights to Gatwick"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51134859
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 15:57
  #210 (permalink)  
 
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"Flybe to switch Newquay-Heathrow flights to Gatwick"
Well, well, after possibly more smoke and mirrors then ever seen in the history of commercial aviation, a not unexpected move.

Some in Cornwall will be happy about this (and I guess some not also!)

Nothing seen yet about what the timings/frequency will be (although I think the PSO subsidy is based on 4 daily as now)?

What are the rules around how the LHR slots and how they can be re-used?
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 16:09
  #211 (permalink)  
 
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The problem is surely that are people who, or whose employer, are prepared to pay an economic fare for an early or late flight. But there aren't during the middle of the day, hence the low fares.
As soon as easyJet announced BHX flights from Edinburgh and Glasgow I immediately thought that this would mean the end of the entire Flybe service, because there would no longer be the cross subsidy between the different flights.
EZY send 4 (5 from S20) planes from EDI on domestic flights first thing. When these return, they leave for cities on the continent - Berlin, Geneva, Paris etc. The reverse happens in the evening. This efficient operation isn't open to the likes of Flybe.
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 16:15
  #212 (permalink)  
aox
 
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Mr O'Leary is getting into the argument as well

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51140969

Again, a Google search for ryanair subsidy produces a wealth of articles about Ryanair receiving subsidy, or operating at airports alleged to be only sustainable with public subsidy, or facing accusations from rivals about unfair subsidy. It even has a marketing article on its own website telling some Spanish citizens they can claim 75% subsidy on their flight costs.

In one of the most astonishing details, the EU ruled that public subsidies on Ryanair flights between AngoulÍme and London in 2008 and 2009 were illegal and should be repaid. in Nov 2018 a Ryanair aircraft was seized at Bordeaux in order to force the airline to stump up the remaining half of the money it still hadn't repaid.

Last edited by aox; 16th Jan 2020 at 16:25.
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 16:18
  #213 (permalink)  
 
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He has been on the losing side of some of those cases so he knows what illegal state support looks like better than You or I.
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 16:45
  #214 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by inOban View Post
The problem is surely that are people who, or whose employer, are prepared to pay an economic fare for an early or late flight. But there aren't during the middle of the day, hence the low fares.
As soon as easyJet announced BHX flights from Edinburgh and Glasgow I immediately thought that this would mean the end of the entire Flybe service, because there would no longer be the cross subsidy between the different flights.
EZY send 4 (5 from S20) planes from EDI on domestic flights first thing. When these return, they leave for cities on the continent - Berlin, Geneva, Paris etc. The reverse happens in the evening. This efficient operation isn't open to the likes of Flybe.
No Easyjet flights from EDI to BHX or reverse.
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 16:55
  #215 (permalink)  
 
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They start with the S20 schedule. That's the fifth early domestic rotation, the others being 3xLondon, plus BFS. There's an early BRS rotation also, but it's BRS based usually.

Last edited by inOban; 16th Jan 2020 at 17:30.
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 17:06
  #216 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by inOban View Post
They start with the S20 schedule. That's the fifth early domestic rotation, the others being 3xLondon, plus BFS. There's an early BFS rotation also, but it's BFS based usually.
No flights until 29th March. Any idea what their schedule will be?
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 17:09
  #217 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cats_five View Post
No flights until 29th March. Any idea what their schedule will be?
I looked and not very useful at the weekends.
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 19:56
  #218 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by inOban View Post
The problem is surely that are people who, or whose employer, are prepared to pay an economic fare for an early or late flight. But there aren't during the middle of the day, hence the low fares.
Assume you mean 'uneconomic', anyway business travel can easily justify the costs of travel (else we wouldn't be in business or wouldn't be travelling) and will only use travel at the ends of the day, what's the point in flying anywhere in the middle of the day ?

I assume tourists travel in the middle of the day, they probably have nothing better to do.

the EDI<->BHX route has a couple of EZY flights during the summer. I care not a jot what the cost is, I'm mostly interested in compliance with schedule.
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 20:37
  #219 (permalink)  
 
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what's the point in flying anywhere in the middle of the day ?

There are fixed costs and marginal costs. Clearly if the potential revenue won't even cover fuel, landing/navigation charges etc, then you leave it on the ground. But you're still leasing the plane, and I'm sure the crew won't like split shifts, so it's still costing. And I understand that fuel is a surprisingly small proportion of an airline's costs

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Old 16th Jan 2020, 20:39
  #220 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by lowfat View Post
Well I fly from Newquay to Aberdeen and all he flights are always full. I also take issue with the stupid comment that London to cornwall is quicker by train. Just over an hour by plane and 6 hours by train. At least 6 hours by train. In fact if I have to use the train I drive an hour and half to Exeter rather than my local station which is 3 hours by train to exeter
Newquay is effectively the airport for all of Cornwall though. For those in the north of the county, Saltash and Liskeard have regular services to London taking around 3hrs 30. And lots more if you cross the Tamar to Plymouth too. Even Penzance is just 5 hrs away, not 6, though Iíll admit plane wins there for speed, even allowing for getting to the airport.

I was struck by the businessman quoted on the BBC who said he would be devastated if the Manchester to Edinburgh route folded. Well thereís a 3hr train that runs every two hours, which city centre to city centre will beat flying these days, once you factor in travel to airport, arrival at the airport no later than 45 mins before departure time (15 min security, 30 min gate closed), contingency margin, and travel into city at the other end. And less stressful and more productive too.
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