Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Boeing, and FAA oversight

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Boeing, and FAA oversight

Old 7th Mar 2020, 02:04
  #301 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: West Coast Canada
Posts: 4,094
Reminds me of the old joke about the guy who is brought in to replace the fired CEO

Any advice he asks the departing guy

Yeah, I left you 2 letters. Open letter No 1 when you get into trouble and then letter No 2 if you are still in trouble

So pretty soon he decides it is time to open letter 1. Inside is a note that says, blame me for everything

So he does that and it works for awhile but things are still not getting better, so he opens letter No 2. It says

“write 2 letters”
Big Pistons Forever is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2020, 03:15
  #302 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 781
Originally Posted by kontrolor View Post
https://transportation.house.gov/imo...rch%202020.pdf

preliminary Congressioanal report. Boeng should be cut in smaller companies and put under special scrutiny. FAA should get rid of all of its employees, who took active part in this shameful story.
Anybody know how much influence can be put upon Boeing and the FAA by this committee? Are their "recommendations" enforceable in law?
Chris2303 is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2020, 06:33
  #303 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Tent
Posts: 786
Originally Posted by Chris2303 View Post
Anybody know how much influence can be put upon Boeing and the FAA by this committee? Are their "recommendations" enforceable in law?
I believe they change the laws, I believe the chair was part of the committee that introduced ATPL pilots minimum hours for airlines to several thousand hours, up from several hundred hours.

But changing laws takes a long time.
Bend alot is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2020, 13:30
  #304 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 2,181
Happy anniversary; or not.

Congressional review approaching first anniversary of the Max grounding:- not a best wishes card …

Boeing: "… marred by technical design failures, lack of transparency with both regulators and customers, and efforts to obfuscate information about the operation of the aircraft.”

FAA: “grossly insufficient”,
“failed in its duty to identify key safety problems and to ensure that they were adequately addressed during the certification process."

In general: a “culture of concealment”, "jeopardized the safety of the flying public.”

also

“none of these expert reviews or investigations have come to the conclusion that our safety certification system is broken or in need of wholesale dismantlement.” i.e. not a congressional problem - really! Who oversees the overseers, provides funding, national commercial and political direction, etc. Accidents of organisation, from the top down.

Not the best foundation on which to improve Boeing - FAA oversight.

https://www-seattletimes-com.cdn.amp...crashes/?amp=1
safetypee is online now  
Old 7th Mar 2020, 13:52
  #305 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: On the Ground
Posts: 155
Originally Posted by MechEngr View Post
I saw this suggestion on a video by a 737 pilot several months ago; I think he showed the breaker was over the shoulder of the left seat. I don't know if this disables both stick shakers, but if a system is lying it does little good to allow it to continue to lie. The first Lion Air flight went nearly 90 minutes with the shaker telling the crew of impending doom and they apparently did nothing specific about it. That suggests it either isn't a big deal or that the pilots ignored a critical warning.
there are two circuit breakers, one behind each pilot, for their corresponding stick shakers. If I had one giving erroneous warning, I would not hesitate to pull it.
Takwis is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2020, 20:49
  #306 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Prague
Posts: 64
Does anyone know what is this about? What sensors does HGS uses? I always though it just shows you known information.
Press Release – FAA Proposes $19.68 Million Civil Penalty Against The Boeing Co.
Rarife is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2020, 21:15
  #307 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: USA
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by Rarife View Post
Does anyone know what is this about? What sensors does HGS uses? I always though it just shows you known information.
Press Release – FAA Proposes $19.68 Million Civil Penalty Against The Boeing Co.
It looks like BA installed a useful and fit-for-purpose, but not yet approved, Heads up guidance system that has since been approved for use in their aircraft. Cart before horse, apparently. I wonder what an investigation into the sales by Rockwell Collins of the devices might turn up. It's on BA to keep up with this, but certainly R-C would be cognizant of blow-back if a crash occurred due to some failure among nearly 800 installed not-yet-approved units.

The Rockwell Collins brochures make them seem like really nice additions, but I suppose the value is in what the pilot learns to do with them.
MechEngr is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2020, 22:30
  #308 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: The No Transgression Zone
Posts: 2,427
Originally Posted by Discorde View Post
^^^^^ DLC could be Direct Lift Control. The Lockheed 1011 used this system (variable spoiler deployment) to control approach flight path without change of attitude.
Is the Old Boeing Push obsolete with DLC?

​​​​​​

Last edited by Pugilistic Animus; 7th Mar 2020 at 23:21.
Pugilistic Animus is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2020, 23:24
  #309 (permalink)  
Psychophysiological entity
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Tweet Rob_Benham Famous author. Well, slightly famous.
Age: 82
Posts: 4,955
I wonder how the Feds have got the nerve!! Finally they're prodded awake and then start making important noises to show they've come out of their toper.
Loose rivets is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 00:23
  #310 (permalink)  
568
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Castletown
Posts: 241
Originally Posted by MechEngr View Post
It looks like BA installed a useful and fit-for-purpose, but not yet approved, Heads up guidance system that has since been approved for use in their aircraft. Cart before horse, apparently. I wonder what an investigation into the sales by Rockwell Collins of the devices might turn up. It's on BA to keep up with this, but certainly R-C would be cognizant of blow-back if a crash occurred due to some failure among nearly 800 installed not-yet-approved units.

The Rockwell Collins brochures make them seem like really nice additions, but I suppose the value is in what the pilot learns to do with them.
The 737NG had HGS (HUD) installed before 2015. The HGS/HUD was updated on later 737NG's to the best of my knowledge.
What the "pilot learns to do with them" (your quote) is taught in a separate simulator detail which includes a demonstration of a Cat 111 approach hand flown to minima.
The HGS/HUD displays a flare cue during the landing, amongst other details. The HUD also displays AOA, wind shear pitch commands, tail strike and a whole lot of other valuable features for the Captain only, as there is no HUD repeater on the FO's side.
568 is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 09:37
  #311 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Freedom Sound
Posts: 336
So the HUD can be another distraction during operation then. After the Asiana B777 report which mentioned about the Autopilot controls being too complicated and suggested making future design simpler, appears too much technology baffles brains.
esscee is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 13:39
  #312 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: The No Transgression Zone
Posts: 2,427
From one 787 flight deck that I saw, it appears that it has dual HUD but perhaps that was just an option and not standard like dual tillers
Pugilistic Animus is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 16:27
  #313 (permalink)  
568
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Castletown
Posts: 241
Originally Posted by Pugilistic Animus View Post
From one 787 flight deck that I saw, it appears that it has dual HUD but perhaps that was just an option and not standard like dual tillers
I believe the 787 HUD on the FO side is standard fit.
568 is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 16:38
  #314 (permalink)  
568
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Castletown
Posts: 241
Originally Posted by esscee View Post
So the HUD can be another distraction during operation then. After the Asiana B777 report which mentioned about the Autopilot controls being too complicated and suggested making future design simpler, appears too much technology baffles brains.
The HUD display does have a great deal of information to absorb.

Former military pilots transitioning to the left seat have no problems as they are somewhat familiar with the symbology on the display.

Having the ability to "over lay" the flight path angle (dashed line on HUD display;normally 3 degrees, but programable through the FMC HUD menu) near the runway threshold/touchdown zone aids SA on visual or instrument approaches.
568 is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 21:08
  #315 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 564
Possible Road Block for the MAX

An apparent rift between the FAA and aviation agencies in other countries involved in the recertification of the Boeing 737 MAX appears to center on cockpit distractions during an emergency.
The complete story can be viewed at:
https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/...max-consensus/

So what do folks on this forum think, good idea to be able to be able to shut off a malfunctioning stick shaker or not? Seems to me that lightening the distraction load is a good idea.
Longtimer is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 21:11
  #316 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 30 Miles from the A1
Posts: 419
If it helps you to aviate, navigate, communicate more effectively then it seems to be a good idea.
2Planks is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 21:24
  #317 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 208
From that article

In both the Lion Air and Ethiopian Airlines crashes the stick shaker on the captain’s side remained activated by a faulty angle of attack sensor even as both pilots pulled with all their strength to try to arrest the uncommanded dive.
The idea that you would have to pull with all your strength to save a plane is so last century. Do all pilots on the MAX have to do body building.
RickNRoll is online now  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 21:56
  #318 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: The Couch
Posts: 113
Originally Posted by RickNRoll View Post
From that article



The idea that you would have to pull with all your strength to save a plane is so last century. Do all pilots on the MAX have to do body building.
Only the ones that skip the A/T Disengage step and insist on trying to relieve aerodynamic loads on the stab at 400kts indicated - try that in any other aeroplane and you'll have similar gym requirements...
RubberDogPoop is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 22:20
  #319 (permalink)  
A4

Ut Sementem Feeceris
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 3,162
aerodynamic loads on the stab at 400kts indicated - try that in any other aeroplane and you'll have similar gym requirements...
Not in FBW Airbus you won’t........side stick has identical resistance at 0 knots or 500 knots.

A4
A4 is online now  
Old 8th Mar 2020, 23:04
  #320 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: USA
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by RickNRoll View Post
From that article



The idea that you would have to pull with all your strength to save a plane is so last century. Do all pilots on the MAX have to do body building.
No. They only need to recall they have opposable thumbs able to push the trim buttons.This is the thing that seems forgotten when a false stick-shaker/stall warning is going off. This was demonstrated by 2 of 6 pilots in the three incidents with one pilot apparently abstaining when the first pilot continued to handle the situation in a reasonably safe fashion.
MechEngr is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.