Ukrainian Aircraft down in Iran
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[QUOTE=Airbubba;10657974]Latest from Babak Taghvaee on the missile theory. Like some other folks here, I've operated out of Mehrabad Airport but not out of Khomeini. Is the depicted dogleg to the right normal on departure?
Looks to be a similar track to the Parot 3G SID
Looks to be a similar track to the Parot 3G SID
Sky news reporting Downing Street investigating possibility aircraft was shot down. (Press speculation only - no new information)
https://news.sky.com/story/iran-plan...ssile-11904698
https://news.sky.com/story/iran-plan...ssile-11904698
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Has anyone remarked THIS article? Perhaps the reason for the delay (offloading baggage from the cargo hold)?
https://112.international/society/16...sdc-47285.html
There were 169 passengers checked in for PS 752 flight from Iran to Kyiv, but two of them did not get aboard. This was announced by the Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council Oleksiy Danylov at the briefing, which was broadcasted by 112 Ukraine TV Channel.
https://112.international/society/16...sdc-47285.html
There were 169 passengers checked in for PS 752 flight from Iran to Kyiv, but two of them did not get aboard. This was announced by the Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council Oleksiy Danylov at the briefing, which was broadcasted by 112 Ukraine TV Channel.
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Here's the FR24 plot of the .kml file plotted on Google Earth:
The standard FR24 plot:
And the FlightAware track log showing a course change in the last point:
Last edited by Airbubba; 9th Jan 2020 at 15:44.
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Thanks, I appreciate it.
Salute!
As Mozella points out, it is not unheard of to have SAM operators and others tracking commercial aircraft. So the theory that an unintentional/accidental launch happened is worthy of examination. However, if that is the case then I doubt the government would be quick to admit such.
Our very own NORAD had "accidental" shootdowns back in the day, and I went thru one pressure chamber training session with a troop that was shot down by an F-102. The Deuce pilot had failed to confirm a weapon system evaluator missile ( inert warhead and motor) was loaded, and a live AIM-4 used for load crew training was launched. We went the full distance when carrying WSEM's, including opening the bay doors and extending the missiles on their trapeze launch rails so the seeker could lock on. For the nuclear Genie on my VooDoo, we rotated the bay door and confirmed the targeting data was sent to the rocket and then the fire signal. Our live nukes had a whole different buncha layers of security and such, as you can imagine. However, I did get to touch them when pre-flighting and cocking my plane on the alert pad. During some inspections and exercises we got them outta the bomb dump and actually loaded a few. You know, "war games" !!
So it is possible a SAM site was tracking the airliner and a safety interlock failed or was incorrectly set. I have a problem with the launch crew not turning off the guidance signals ( if the thing was command guided like ones I saw over Hanoi and not a radar/optical seeker). And even the semi-active seeker types can go "dumb" if you turn off the tracking radar.
Gums sends...
As Mozella points out, it is not unheard of to have SAM operators and others tracking commercial aircraft. So the theory that an unintentional/accidental launch happened is worthy of examination. However, if that is the case then I doubt the government would be quick to admit such.
Our very own NORAD had "accidental" shootdowns back in the day, and I went thru one pressure chamber training session with a troop that was shot down by an F-102. The Deuce pilot had failed to confirm a weapon system evaluator missile ( inert warhead and motor) was loaded, and a live AIM-4 used for load crew training was launched. We went the full distance when carrying WSEM's, including opening the bay doors and extending the missiles on their trapeze launch rails so the seeker could lock on. For the nuclear Genie on my VooDoo, we rotated the bay door and confirmed the targeting data was sent to the rocket and then the fire signal. Our live nukes had a whole different buncha layers of security and such, as you can imagine. However, I did get to touch them when pre-flighting and cocking my plane on the alert pad. During some inspections and exercises we got them outta the bomb dump and actually loaded a few. You know, "war games" !!
So it is possible a SAM site was tracking the airliner and a safety interlock failed or was incorrectly set. I have a problem with the launch crew not turning off the guidance signals ( if the thing was command guided like ones I saw over Hanoi and not a radar/optical seeker). And even the semi-active seeker types can go "dumb" if you turn off the tracking radar.
Gums sends...
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Seems to be confirmed to be a missile, not one but two:
@krisvancleave.@cbsnews: US officials are confident Ukrainian Flt 752 was shot down by Iran. US intelligence picked up signals of the radar being turned on & satellite detected infrared blips of 2 missile launches, probably SA-15s, followed shortly by another infrared blip of an explosion.
@krisvancleave.
Yes, the FR24 granular data and FlightAware show a 14° track change (289° to 313°) over the course of about 30 seconds (02:44:15 to 02:44:45), so about half a degree per second.
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US UK and Iraqi officials seem to be in agreement on this now after distancing from it yesterday.
BREAKING: Senior US and Iraqi officials report that the Ukrainian airliner that went down outside Tehran was brought down by a surface to air missile.
BREAKING: Senior US and Iraqi officials report that the Ukrainian airliner that went down outside Tehran was brought down by a surface to air missile.
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US UK and Iraqi officials seem to be in agreement on this now after distancing from it yesterday.
BREAKING: Senior US and Iraqi officials report that the Ukrainian airliner that went down outside Tehran was brought down by a surface to air missile.
BREAKING: Senior US and Iraqi officials report that the Ukrainian airliner that went down outside Tehran was brought down by a surface to air missile.
Last edited by Airbubba; 9th Jan 2020 at 17:20.
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Just in:
WASHINGTON, Jan 9 (Reuters) - A Ukraine airliner that crashed in Iran, killing all 176 people aboard, was most likely brought down accidentally by Iranian air defenses, U.S. officials said on Thursday.
One U.S. official said U.S. satellites had detected the launch of two missiles shortly before the plane crashed, followed by evidence of an explosion. Two officials said Washington believed the downing of the plane was accidental.
The Pentagon declined to comment.
WASHINGTON, Jan 9 (Reuters) - A Ukraine airliner that crashed in Iran, killing all 176 people aboard, was most likely brought down accidentally by Iranian air defenses, U.S. officials said on Thursday.
One U.S. official said U.S. satellites had detected the launch of two missiles shortly before the plane crashed, followed by evidence of an explosion. Two officials said Washington believed the downing of the plane was accidental.
The Pentagon declined to comment.
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Good work by some open minded Ppruners, IMO. Some very well observed details of high velocity frag damage to parts of the airframe, some accurate interpretation of the recorded initial flightpath and some well considered consideration of the subsequent descent and crash. Additionally, the smoking evidence of the missile seeker was well explained and treated with the appropriate caution by those with knowledge. I am sure more details will emerge. RIP the victims.
OAP
OAP
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EDML,
Pretty quick thinking on someone's part to publish that photo of the Seeker Head.....was it taken into evidence by the Iranian authorities....the Seeker Head and photos....and a Statement by the finder himself?
If not....what investigation was done to confirm/deny the validity of the "claim" made by the poster of the photo?
Either it is genuine or it is not.....which is it and how is the truth of the matter documented?
Can we trust what is being put forward regarding the Seeker Head by the Iranian Government?
Pretty quick thinking on someone's part to publish that photo of the Seeker Head.....was it taken into evidence by the Iranian authorities....the Seeker Head and photos....and a Statement by the finder himself?
If not....what investigation was done to confirm/deny the validity of the "claim" made by the poster of the photo?
Either it is genuine or it is not.....which is it and how is the truth of the matter documented?
Can we trust what is being put forward regarding the Seeker Head by the Iranian Government?
However, if I would have found a missile part near a crashed aircraft I would have done more to document what it is and where it was found. E.g. a picture showing the wider surroundings so that the location can be verified. Turning it over to the authorities might be a problem in Iran, I agree on that.
I have seen so many pictures after aircraft accidents posted on social media where, after a short period of time, it was determined, that they did not even show the aircraft that had crashed.
Without any kind of proof or further information I tend to be very skeptical with pictures found on social media sites.
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Interesting image (Ghetty Images) just appeared on CNN. Shows a big section of fuselage (Heat damaged) partially embedded in a building. Surely not the same plane?
Last edited by jewitts; 9th Jan 2020 at 16:57. Reason: addition
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_S...eing_707_crash
The BBC has rolled out old Learmount for Radio 4 and News At 6 so there goes all credibility for that organisation.
