Toxic Cabin Air/Aerotoxic Syndrome
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Smelly Socks
I recall several entries I made in the tech log re smelly socks (whether old or new but unwashed I know not) when on the 757. It seemed to occur for a minute or two on the descent passing about FL300. I am now too old to remember exactly what happened at 30,000ft but think it might have had something to do with the packs. The stink was fairly repulsive.
Prober
Prober
Vereinigung cockpit have a very comprehensive post fume event checklist but in the UK the Balpa medical rep has been much more skeptical about these events and such events are under reported and also tend to be dismissed without any follow up as to the longer term effects of exposure.
Balpa has a lot of catching up to do.
Balpa has a lot of catching up to do.
From the sound of it, if the FO was not responding to questions, so that very neatly ticks the 'incapacitated' box for me.
If you are a commercial pilot in 2 crew operation (I don't know if you are), you'll be aware of SOPs, and the required challenge and expected response during for example, the take-off roll, around 80kts, in order for both pilots to establish very quickly whether they are both operating as expected in their capacity(ies), or whether there appears to be an incapacitation of whatever description; in which case there is one and only one sensible next step. Therefore, any doubt about both pilots' capacity to operate effectively needs to be established at that time, very quickly, and comfortably before V1. Any unresponsiveness is deemed incapacitation, as seems to be reported in this case. Discussion of medical definitions of unresponsiveness is irrelevant; if you're not responding to me per SOPs, you're a passenger, not part of the crew, and I'll respond accordingly. Simple.
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All BA A320s have IAE V2500 engines whereas Easyjet aircraft have only CFM engines. Although Easyjet have a larger fleet of A330/A319 aircraft, BA seems to suffer more 'fumes in cockpit' incidents. This suggests that the IAE engine may be the culprit. I understand it has a higher oil pressure than other jet engines thus putting greater stress on its oil seals.
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All BA A320s have IAE V2500 engines whereas Easyjet aircraft have only CFM engines. Although Easyjet have a larger fleet of A330/A319 aircraft, BA seems to suffer more 'fumes in cockpit' incidents. This suggests that the IAE engine may be the culprit. I understand it has a higher oil pressure than other jet engines thus putting greater stress on its oil seals.
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There was a fairly detailed report on fume events on the BBC World Service today. It discussed several court cases that have been going on. The podcast can be found here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w172w0q34d6cs2y
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w172w0q34d6cs2y
All BA A320s have IAE V2500 engines whereas Easyjet aircraft have only CFM engines. Although Easyjet have a larger fleet of A330/A319 aircraft, BA seems to suffer more 'fumes in cockpit' incidents. This suggests that the IAE engine may be the culprit. I understand it has a higher oil pressure than other jet engines thus putting greater stress on its oil seals.
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Because a real pilot(tm) would not be affected by toxic fumes, so it can't possibly be that.
Jeepers. Toxic fumes are a real hazard when working around combustion engines and the reason that operators of planes, boats, and cars don't keel over every day is because of the concerted and unsung efforts of legions of engineers and technicians who work every day to ensure that breathable air is not contaminated with fatal air. Seals fail, pipes corrode, and sometimes there are bad designs that are more prone (even though it is a very slight risk) to leakage. With millions of flights, it is going to happen sometimes and the job of engineers and techs is to ensure that "sometimes" is a vanishingly small a number as humanly possible.
Jeepers. Toxic fumes are a real hazard when working around combustion engines and the reason that operators of planes, boats, and cars don't keel over every day is because of the concerted and unsung efforts of legions of engineers and technicians who work every day to ensure that breathable air is not contaminated with fatal air. Seals fail, pipes corrode, and sometimes there are bad designs that are more prone (even though it is a very slight risk) to leakage. With millions of flights, it is going to happen sometimes and the job of engineers and techs is to ensure that "sometimes" is a vanishingly small a number as humanly possible.
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BALPA & Toxic Cabin Air
Vereinigung cockpit have a very comprehensive post fume event checklist but in the UK the Balpa medical rep has been much more skeptical about these events and such events are under reported and also tend to be dismissed without any follow up as to the longer term effects of exposure.
Balpa has a lot of catching up to do.
Balpa has a lot of catching up to do.
https://www.anstageslicht.de/fileadm...005_WINDER.pdf
[pax] There was a BBC radio File on Four programme about fumes yesterday, which my wife made me listen to. Probably a rehash of the World Service programme. Unfortunately it was short on statistics and case follow up so I didn't know what to make of it. A BA flight from San Francisco which diverted to Vancouver owing to behavioural ' abnormalities' with the crew was mentioned without any explanation of any subsequent investigation ( or if any passengers had issues). As a passenger, it was enough to sow seeds of concern but seemed to muddy the difference between acute episodes and long term exposure. Without long term medical statistics comparing crew with the general population it seems difficult to see how this can be resolved.
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BA633 ATH-LHR 02 Jan 2020 - ASR
It seems the AAIB are conducting a 'correspondence investigation' rather than a 'field investigation' into the event with G-EUYM, 02 January.
The AAIB list their current (on-going) field investigations here - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/aaib-current-field-investigations/air-accidents-investigation-branch-current-field-investigations
They don't seem to have links to on-going correspondence investigations, so you only see them in the full list of final reports - viz https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports The one for EI-DEO seems to represent a similar event and nine out of the first ten on the list are correspondence investigations.
Sofar, apparently, the only visible evidence for this "Full (Annex 13) investigation" (until completed) is via the BEA -
Link - https://www.bea.aero/en/investigation-reports/notified-events/detail/event/serious-incident-to-an-airbus-a320-operated-by-british-airways-on-02012020-near-london-investigat/
According to other posters and reports, the airline has been lobbying the meejah, claiming that the F/O did not faint. It will therefore remain to be seen whether the AAIB and the BEA will give credence to the evidence, or to the BA PR spinners.
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BA633 ATH-LHR 02 Jan 2020 - ASR
It seems the AAIB are conducting a 'correspondence investigation' rather than a 'field investigation' into the event with G-EUYM, 02 January.
The AAIB list their current (on-going) field investigations here - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/aaib-current-field-investigations/air-accidents-investigation-branch-current-field-investigations
They don't seem to have links to on-going correspondence investigations, so you only see them in the full list of final reports - viz https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports The one for EI-DEO seems to represent a similar event and nine out of the first ten on the list are correspondence investigations.
Sofar, apparently, the only visible evidence for this "Full (Annex 13) investigation" (until completed) is via the BEA -
"File Number BEA2020-0004 "Serious incident to an Airbus A320 operated by British Airways on 02/01/2020 near London [Investigation led by AAIB / United Kingdom]"Summary - Preliminary data based on the notification from the United Kingdom authorities:
Ten minutes from landing the flight crew became aware of smell/fumes in the cockpit. First officer became unwell and fainted. Both crew went onto oxygen. Mayday declared. Aircraft landed safely and crew sought medical attention."
Ten minutes from landing the flight crew became aware of smell/fumes in the cockpit. First officer became unwell and fainted. Both crew went onto oxygen. Mayday declared. Aircraft landed safely and crew sought medical attention."
According to other posters and reports, the airline has been lobbying the meejah, claiming that the F/O did not faint. It will therefore remain to be seen whether the AAIB and the BEA will give credence to the evidence, or to the BA PR spinners.
...
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Documentary film about Contaminated Air
We have a documentary film about the contaminated air issue currently showing in selected UK cinemas called 'Everybody Flies'.
Trailer, press reviews and screening details are available at:
https://www.everybodyflies.com/
Made by a former BALPA NEC member and BA Boeing 757/767 Captain.
Trailer, press reviews and screening details are available at:
https://www.everybodyflies.com/
Made by a former BALPA NEC member and BA Boeing 757/767 Captain.
A very important subject that needs more independent study.
If the rest of the documentary is as good as the trailer it will be well worth watching.
My only question is why hasn't it had more exposure say on TV or Youtube?
If the rest of the documentary is as good as the trailer it will be well worth watching.
My only question is why hasn't it had more exposure say on TV or Youtube?
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Daily Telegraph Chris Booker article 24th June 2007
Christopher Booker's notebook
By Christopher Booker
12:01AM BST 24 Jun 2007
Pilots disabled by poisoned air
A few years back Susan Michaelis, Tristan Loraine and John Hoyte were successful airline pilots, earning up to £100,000 a year. Last Monday, with health and livelihood destroyed, they joined forces with some 20 other similarly disabled pilots, to launch a campaign to alert the public to what should be seen as one of the most alarming scandals of our time.
Yet two days later came further evidence of how the regulatory authorities, in alliance with the airline industry itself, have stopped at nothing to cover up a health disaster whose financial costs for the industry could run to many billions.
The essence of the problem is that the air supply to the cockpits and cabins of many modern airliners is bled off from their engines, where it becomes contaminated with carcinogens, immunosuppressants and highly toxic organo-phosphorus (OP) chemicals, especially a compound known as tricresyl phosphate (TCP) used as an anti-wear additive. Both crew and passengers are thus exposed to small amounts of OPs and a cocktail of other nasties. OPs, more commonly used as pesticides, cumulatively attack the nervous system, causing disorders ranging from nausea, headaches and dizziness to, eventually, serious mental and physical breakdown.
Although this problem was first identified 30 years ago, following a near-fatal incident in the US, it was kept so quiet that when hundreds of pilots in the 1980s began to experience adverse reactions they had no idea why. One of the first to track down the cause was Susan Michaelis, flying BA146s in Australia, when in 1997 she was permanently grounded by severe illness. Two years later, at her instigation, an official inquiry by the Australian Senate heard enough expert evidence to confirm that the cause of so many pilots and cabin crew suffering ill-health was contamination of cabin air by TCP and other chemicals.
In 2001 the cause was taken up in Britain by Captain Loraine, a senior member of the British Air Line Pilots Association (BALPA), who flew Boeing 757s. But from the industry and regulators, such as the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA), they met with a wall of denials. Although more pilots were suffering from "aerotoxic syndrome" every year, there began a cover-up which uncannily parallelled the methods used by government in the 1990s when the health of thousands of farmers was destroyed by OPs in sheep dip.
Ironically, in 2005, just after he had organised a BALPA conference of leading scientists and other experts from all over the world, Captain Loraine himself became seriously affected. Initially doctors for his airline saw no reason why he should not continue flying, but in 2006, following further exposure to contaminated air, he was permanently grounded by the CAA.
The career of Captain Hoyte, an experienced BA146 pilot, ended the same year for the same reason, although he was repeatedly told by doctors for his airline and the CAA that his only problem was "stress".
Tests run on both pilots by the leading medical experts on OP poisoning, including Professor Mohamed Abou-Donia, of Duke University, North Carolina, and neuropsychologist Dr Sarah Mackenzie-Ross of University College, London, confirmed brain cell death, cognitive problems and exposure to TCP, explaining why both had become textbook cases of OP-induced chronic neurotoxicity.
Dr Mackenzie-Ross, who since 2003 has been carrying out an extensive study of sheep farmers and airline pilots, has estimated that, in 2004, 197,000 airline passengers in Britain alone could have been exposed to contaminated fumes. The evidence suggests that a great many people have been made ill while flying without having any idea why. One of the scientists studying this problem, Professor Chris van Netten, a Canadian epidemiologist, has analysed swabs taken from many different airliners, finding traces of TCP in more than 80 per cent of the aircraft tested.
Yet, despite the overwhelming weight of evidence, the regulators and the industry have continued to deny that the TCP problem exists. For three years now, as with the sheep farmers before, the British Government has relied on its Committee on Toxicity (CoT) to conduct a seemingly interminable investigation into "cabin air quality", marked by a conspicuous reluctance to address the problem of TCP.
Last week, Michaelis, Loraine and Hoyte joined forces at Portcullis House, Westminster, to launch the Aerotoxic Association, backed by 110 MPs and many peers, including those veterans of the battle to expose the scandal of OP poisoning, the Countess of Mar and Lord (Paul) Tyler. On Wednesday, however, the CoT produced the minutes of yet another of its meetings. As official obfuscation, they were almost self-parodic. They referred to BALPA submitting "data relating to organo-phosphates", but this was the only reference to OPs in the document. The remaining 20 pages, dealing with anything from carbon monoxide to the need to review pilot-training procedures, showed that the committee had no interest in whether airline crews and passengers were being poisoned by TCP from engine oil. It is high time this particular cover-up was blown wide open.
Mr Optimistic (post #27) mentions a BBC Radio 4 File on 4 programme on 25 Feb. I missed it, but I caught the repeat today 1 Mar. Mr O says it was
which I don't disagree with - but I feel it's another step in the right direction.
You can find it at https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000fp62
The blurb is quite descriptive
In January 2020, a British Airways flight from Athens to London issued a "Mayday" emergency call when the pilot flying the plane became incapacitated during a "fume event". The airline industry does not reveal how often fume events happen, but according to some estimates they occur every day on airlines worldwide.. They are thought to be caused by air containing chemicals from engine oil passing into the cabin.
Pilots and cabin crew say that sudden fume events and long term low level exposure to toxic cabin air can make them seriously ill. In some cases they claim exposure to affected air has caused premature death.
The industry insists that serious leaks of toxic gas into cockpits and cabins are relatively very rare, given the number of flights each day. And that no causal link between toxic cabin air and health problems has yet been proven.
But the industry faces multiple court cases this year. On File on 4 one representative of the airline industry agrees to face questions on fume events, claims of a lack of transparency and claims that the health of hundreds of pilots, cabin crew and frequent fliers is being affected.
We reveal confidential airline and Coroners' reports in connection with fume events and so called "aerotoxicity". We hear about pilots and crew who say they've been poisoned by toxic cabin air. And from scientists about research being done on potential links between airline cabin contamination and neurological health.
Presenter: Mike Powell
Producer: Paul Waters
Editor: Andrew Smith
airsound
short on statistics and case follow up
You can find it at https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000fp62
The blurb is quite descriptive
Something in the Air?
File on 4In January 2020, a British Airways flight from Athens to London issued a "Mayday" emergency call when the pilot flying the plane became incapacitated during a "fume event". The airline industry does not reveal how often fume events happen, but according to some estimates they occur every day on airlines worldwide.. They are thought to be caused by air containing chemicals from engine oil passing into the cabin.
Pilots and cabin crew say that sudden fume events and long term low level exposure to toxic cabin air can make them seriously ill. In some cases they claim exposure to affected air has caused premature death.
The industry insists that serious leaks of toxic gas into cockpits and cabins are relatively very rare, given the number of flights each day. And that no causal link between toxic cabin air and health problems has yet been proven.
But the industry faces multiple court cases this year. On File on 4 one representative of the airline industry agrees to face questions on fume events, claims of a lack of transparency and claims that the health of hundreds of pilots, cabin crew and frequent fliers is being affected.
We reveal confidential airline and Coroners' reports in connection with fume events and so called "aerotoxicity". We hear about pilots and crew who say they've been poisoned by toxic cabin air. And from scientists about research being done on potential links between airline cabin contamination and neurological health.
Presenter: Mike Powell
Producer: Paul Waters
Editor: Andrew Smith
Not Isolating?
We have a documentary film about the contaminated air issue currently showing in selected UK cinemas called 'Everybody Flies'.
Trailer, press reviews and screening details are available at:
https://www.everybodyflies.com/
Made by a former BALPA NEC member and BA Boeing 757/767 Captain.
Trailer, press reviews and screening details are available at:
https://www.everybodyflies.com/
Made by a former BALPA NEC member and BA Boeing 757/767 Captain.
https://www.everybodyflies.com/
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Cinema screenings
I was thinking of going to the flicks in Horsham tonight, but wondered if, in the current climate, it's wise to share a cinema with a potential audience of world travelling pilots and CC?
https://www.everybodyflies.com/
https://www.everybodyflies.com/