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79 year old FA fired by Delta

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79 year old FA fired by Delta

Old 8th Dec 2019, 21:21
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Originally Posted by Lord Farringdon
If Delta doesn't want old employees, then the airline could certainly treat it's long serving employees better by offering severance packages to older staff that incentivise them to leave the workforce while offering the employee some forward security and adjustment time.

In any case, it seems some Delta Flight attendants do have a drinking problem.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/trave...er-drink-limit
LF,

DL has offered "early-out" deals in the past but they were laugh-out-loud funny. The only people who could possibly be interested were people planning on going anyway and might adjust their departure date to get a little beer money on their way out. All it amounted to was beer money.

There weren't many takers over all. DL needs to get serious and sweeten the pot considerably if clearing the top of the F/A seniority list is their goal.

As for that other issue, there are 22000 to 23000 F/As at DL. It's not surprising that an occasional but very rare episode happens. Unacceptable but hardly common.

Last edited by bafanguy; 8th Dec 2019 at 21:33.
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Old 8th Dec 2019, 21:36
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Originally Posted by bafanguy
LF,

DL has offered "early-out" deals in the past but they were laugh-out-loud funny. The only people who could possibly be interested were people planning on going anyway and might adjust their departure date to get a little beer money on their way out.

There weren't many takers over all.

As for that other issue, there are 22000 to 23000 F/As at DL. It's not surprising that an occasional but very rare episode happens. Unacceptable but hardly common.

Thanks for that bafanguy. I guess the incentive to the employee just wasn't there to make that scheme work.
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Old 8th Dec 2019, 22:33
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Originally Posted by Lord Farringdon
There is something not being told in this story of an almost octogenarian flight attendant on 250K /annum, the holder of company awards and letters of endorsement from customers, embroiled in a battle with her employer over minor theft and drinking. For the sake of click bait, the real truth is not being told, so I'm putting any judgments on hold until the truth emerges. But to those who wish her removed from flight duties because she is 'too old' be aware that another poster above has offered the revelation of Flight Attendant who was 91 years old!! Interestingly, back in the day when I flew TWA on a few positioning flights, I don't remember seeing any cabin crew who could be considered anything but old, especially the Chief Purser. I have no idea of their ages but some of the senior ones I guess were in their 70's and the juniors in economy in their 40's through 60's. This was compared to my national airline where the cabin crew throughout the aircraft were positively youthful by comparison.

Now I am all for older people working because God knows that there is no other way to survive if life hasn't been kind to you. I am reasonably confident that she could pass all the physical and mental requirements of the job and conduct her flight duties in the expected manner otherwise she wouldn't still be there, wouldn't be getting company awards and wouldn't be getting good job letters from her customers. Interestingly, Health and Safety has said you cant lift any more than X and are not allowed to lift passengers bag's into the bins in some airlines. I have no idea what Delta's policies are but it is quite likely that H&S avoids heavy lifting being part of her job description. So the only real risk for carrying a 79 year old is that she has a medical event en route that requires a diversion or that she dies on duty. Compared to those Captains who have medical events or collapsed dead on approach, the risk to the carrier and to safety on board seems incredibly less. I see no reason why she would be unable to administer O2, wield a fire extinguisher, guide passengers to evacuation exits or deploy life-rafts (passengers may be generally be asked to assist with this anyway since they are not one man or women deployable). Pushing a full drinks trolley up front on climb out may be testing but I suspect her senior position prevents her from having to play that game too often. The same applies to opening cabin doors which can be heavy and awkward to maneuver and especially when armed for an emergency evacuation. However, years of opening these doors means she has the technique down pat and clearly she passed the emergency drills on her annual training. ( The first time I opened a B727 door as a young man, it nearly threw me out of the aircraft with it! I was instructed how to get your stance right and understand the action, then you can get the door inertia to to all the hard work...while remaining in the aircraft). So, all I can say is that some people don't like seeing old people serve them a snack, would prefer a 'trolley dolly' and are just generally ageist. Can't do much about that I guess. If Delta doesn't want old employees, then the airline could certainly treat it's long serving employees better by offering severance packages to older staff that incentivise them to leave the workforce while offering the employee some forward security and adjustment time.

In any case, it seems some Delta Flight attendants do have a drinking problem. Looks like this one gets off lightly while the 79 year old gets hammered ..so to speak.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/trave...er-drink-limit
Hear, hear, Lord F.! It should be obvious to most with experience in the real world that the chances that an FA with more than half a century of clearly-distinguished service is guilty of the less-than-trivial "theft" of which Ms. Llanos was accused are very slim indeed. Common sense suggests that it is much more likely that her claim of being set up is closer to the truth. Older, more expensive employees are routinely targeted by envious coworkers and employers who would prefer to pay less for the work they do. That this is common knowledge is an understatement.

And thanks for the link to the story about the FA intercepted at LHR while trying fly while intoxicated. If she is still employed, the chances that Ms. Llano was really terminated for theft of milk are vanishingly-tiny.

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Old 8th Dec 2019, 22:52
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Originally Posted by Lord Farringdon
I guess the incentive to the employee just wasn't there to make that scheme work.
There are approximately 250 DL F/As with 50+ years of service which puts them at ~70+ years old.

If they really want to encourage them to leave, they need to get serious about the money...really serious...along with a Medicare supplement perhaps.

It's true we don't know what happened to the lady who's the subject of this thread but I tend to lean away from a concerted plan to clear out the old F/A's due to their cost. There are just too few of them over all to go to so much trouble. Did her local cohorts gang up to make reports in sufficient numbers that management could not ignore because they just didn't like her ? Perhaps...who knows...

That these cohorts thought they'd benefit their own personal lives by clearing out one senior mama doesn't doesn't float. Clearing out all 250 of them out of 23,000 just doesn't improve anything. It's math.
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Old 8th Dec 2019, 23:25
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Originally Posted by bafanguy
That these cohorts thought they'd benefit their own personal lives by clearing out one senior mama doesn't doesn't float. Clearing out all 250 of them out of 23,000 just doesn't improve anything. It's math.
But envy and resentment aren't good at math.

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Old 9th Dec 2019, 01:12
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Company pensions and health benefits are not God given benefits. They need to be negotiated and fought for. This can only be done by a union or another interest group.
A late cousin who worked for Allegheny ( later US Air ) enjoyed benefits even I, with a contract in Europe, did not have. However, I was a member of out negotiation group,
and we achieved very reasonable results. From which I benefit today. It was not for free - the company paid 50% of the dues, the employee the other. It does not speak for the 23,000 FAs if they are not able to use their power. I wonder what the rules for the pilots are. They are ALPA members, arenīt they?
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 02:31
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I'm not sure that people in Europe quite "get" the situation in the US. Pensions are pretty much a thing of the past and once you leave your job you have no health coverage (you can buy it for a year under a plan called COBRA.) Unlike most of the rest of the world, when we talk about health benefits we are not talking about "nicer than the standard government health benefits", we are talking about "any" health benefits. One hospital was recently dinged from dumping people who couldn't pay from the ER room -- in their hospital gowns -- out to the local bus station. If you don't have employer insurance you are on your own, with the added little problem that insurance companies are not really that keen on selling "individual" plans even at obscene costs. I got a nice notice from my insurance company that they would no longer cover me because they don't do business in my county anymore, and they were the only provider serving my county! (They got upset that people were questioning why they were not covering transportation costs from my rural area to the hospital for "non life threatening cases" such as having chest pains that turned out to be nothing.) My wife and I were paying these guys over $1200/month, and it wasn't enough for them. The county scrambeled and begged some fly-by-night appearing firm to let us pay obscene prices for even less coverage so we will see how that goes.

Sorry to be off topic but realize that many people are working through old age here because they have to and it kind of strikes a nerve with me. Without health insurance, a weeks stay in the hospital will quickly bankrupt even middle income people. I'm one of the fortunate ones simply because I chose a lucky employer long ago and for along time have been able to do pretty much whatever I want to job-wise, but few people are in my boat, um so to speak.

To bring this back to aircraft, Boeing moved a lot of production to South Carolina which is a "right to work" (union busting) state which means no pension.
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 02:41
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It should be noted that the reason there isn't a FA union at Delta is that - for the most part - Delta has treated it's employees well enough that they didn't want to be bothered with a union and it's associated hassles and expenses. Back in the 1980s, the employees actually got together and donated enough money to pay for one of Delta's new 767s (subsequently named "The Spirit of Delta"). While today's Delta is far removed from the Delta that existed in the 1980s, there is still considerable company spirit, especially among the legacy Delta people (my understanding is that most of the push for a union is from people who used to be part of Northwest - not the legacy Delta - who were used to being shafted by their employeer).

There are some pretty obvious distortions in the published stories currently out there (the $250k salary for a FA is obviously fiction). Hopefully time will give us a better idea of the truth of the matter.
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 05:19
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Boeing moved a lot of production to South Carolina which is a "right to work" (union busting) state which means no pension.
Well, No. It means no longer a Defined Benefit plan, a scheme which largely bankrupted the auto industry. And a switch to Defined Contribution plan, like just about everyone else.
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 10:30
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Originally Posted by FrequentSLF
Flight attendants are on board mainly to guarantee the safety of passengers, and as a pax I wonder how efficient a 79 yo would be in guaranteeing and helping in my safety in case of an emergency.
I fully agree here. But that's what the respective annual training and tests she mentioned are for. If she can't pass the tests, why not state the facts clearly and dismiss her?

What comes to my mind is that she may have been passed out of PC, courtesy or even fear of age discrminination claims despite the fact she might not have been up to it any more.
That would certainly have annoyed her peers, and Delta would have just let the thing sort itself out and wait for her to slip up on something that would provide more solid grounds for dismissal.
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 10:42
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What comes to my mind is that she may have been passed out of PC, courtesy or even fear of age discrminination claims despite the fact she might not have been up to it any more.
I find this very worrying.
Do pilots get given passes on medicals or sims due to PC, courtesy or even fear of age discrminination?
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 11:31
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To Water Pilot

I read your statement with great interest. In spite of having spent much of my spare time in the U.S., over 30 years in Southwestern Colorado, I was not aware the situation is that bad now. Most of my ( late ) friends served in the military, and they enjoyed excellent medical benefits, the owner of the ranch, where I stayed, consulted a Indian chiropractor instead. I live in a small town on the Munich city limit, although there are cuts everywhere, I still enjoy the fact, that my doctor, a general practicioner, is still making house visits, that I would be taken to hospital " within minutes " if needed, even could enjoy a free helicopter ride, if it was a extremly urgent case. The staff at the emergency call centres are very efficient. I am most grateful for having these services, without worrying about money. We have to pay a significant share on medication, also have to pay a fee for each day in hospital, but it it is nothing which would ruin us. Praise The Lord!

The situation is totally different in other European countries, particularly in the South/East states where the cheque book mentality still exists. This wont change in the next decades, but starting from Austria and Switzerland up North, health care is good or even outstanding.

My very best wishes to you.
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 15:42
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Originally Posted by CISTRS
I find this very worrying.
Do pilots get given passes on medicals or sims due to PC, courtesy or even fear of age discrminination?
Of course not (I hope ...), but I can see how this could be perceived as far less of a problem regarding FA's. For pilots, the negative impact of such doing would be immediately clear to everyone.
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 20:52
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This lady is 79 and she wasn't even thinking about retiring!
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 21:17
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Water Pilot

Very interesting and illuminating response
Never knew things were that bad!

I did hear though many folk are too scared to leave a company (and effectively locked into one) as their health benefits may not transfer over to any new employment if they have a pre-existing condition.

Scary stuff.
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Old 10th Dec 2019, 03:04
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Originally Posted by flash8
Water Pilot

Very interesting and illuminating response
Never knew things were that bad!

I did hear though many folk are too scared to leave a company (and effectively locked into one) as their health benefits may not transfer over to any new employment if they have a pre-existing condition.

Scary stuff.

In 2014 a federal law was passed requiring all insurance companies in the United States to cover pre existing conditions. There is no longer a pre existing condition trap, and there hasn’t been one for 5 years.

My sister quit her job and became indigent with serious, ultimately fatal, medical issues. She was then covered by Medicaid. (A Federal/State health insurance Plan for those earning not more than approximately 133% of the poverty level - most recently about 72 million people are on Medicaid) Since we took care of her, I witnessed first hand she had health care and treatment I would have had. She stayed in nursing homes I would have stayed in and she had end of life care I would hope for.



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