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Another type for Southwest Airlines?

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Another type for Southwest Airlines?

Old 28th Nov 2019, 15:13
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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At some point, SW will have to consider a new aircraft type in order to maintain their existing route structure, maybe sooner vice later given the Max. I doubt there will be a 737-SuperMax or any other derivative. A new aircraft type or two is inevitable.
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Old 28th Nov 2019, 17:24
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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There are only ten cities in the USA with the population of more than one million.
Originally Posted by SeenItAll View Post
That may be true if you look only at the population within the central city limits, but on a metropolitan area basis, there are dozens and dozens of metropolitan areas with greater than 1 million people. For example, the population within the city limits of Washington, DC is only about 700,000 -- but its metropolitan area exceeds 5 million.
There are 53 Metropolitan Statistical Areas in the USA with a population over 1 million in 2018. SW flies to 52 of them. Poor Cincinnati just canít get any love.
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Old 28th Nov 2019, 18:14
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by b1lanc View Post
At some point, SW will have to consider a new aircraft type in order to maintain their existing route structure, maybe sooner vice later given the Max. I doubt there will be a 737-SuperMax or any other derivative. A new aircraft type or two is inevitable.
Notwithstanding the thread title, it's not about SWA's replacement for the 737-700, but about adding a second, smaller-gauge type to the fleet to serve thin routes. The consensus appears to be that that's not about to happen.
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Old 28th Nov 2019, 19:59
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
Notwithstanding the thread title, it's not about SWA's replacement for the 737-700, but about adding a second, smaller-gauge type to the fleet to serve thin routes. The consensus appears to be that that's not about to happen.
Point being, reliance on one manufacturer is hurting a couple of airlines. Though replacement for the 700 may not be the immediate need, pickle fork impact on maintenance and ops bottom line notwithstanding, beginning the process of adding a second type may be a prudent move in any case. If you look at their route map, their coverage in north central/western US is non-existent - mostly service by Alaska, United, etc. with regionals that charge just as high a price as their namesake partners. A220 may not be the right answer, but nothing coming out of Boeing in the near future.
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Old 29th Nov 2019, 00:11
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Clearly, another type doesnít work well within the SWA model. They acquired many 717s from AirTran which both Delta and Hawaiian Airlines operate profitably. They clearly didnít find value there. I find it highly unlikely that SWA will order A220-100 or -300. I think itís far more likely that SWA orders Max10 or perhaps a Boeing NMA for growth.
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Old 29th Nov 2019, 01:37
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cxorcist View Post
Clearly, another type doesn’t work well within the SWA model. They acquired many 717s from AirTran which both Delta and Hawaiian Airlines operate profitably. They clearly didn’t find value there. I find it highly unlikely that SWA will order A220-100 or -300. I think it’s far more likely that SWA orders Max10 or perhaps a Boeing NMA for growth.
Big difference between inheriting used 717s and purchasing a new type. Ultimately, what has worked for SW for decades will no longer be airworthy. Whatever their model may have little bearing on what it will be 20 years from now and that will be defined by what A & B do or do not produce. I'd agree with the NMA except nothing is guaranteed with B now, let alone a 143 pax version.
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Old 29th Nov 2019, 03:50
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by b1lanc View Post
with regionals that charge just as high a price as their namesake partners.
Point of order, other than a very few routes not sanctioned by major partners, regionals donít set ticket prices.
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Old 29th Nov 2019, 05:14
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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SWA business model is about simplicity.
Single type means lower training costs for pilots and mechanics as well as cost savings on parts. A broken airplane is replaced by a similar spare, seats are all the same.
They have plenty of growth, now flying to the Hawaiian islands.
I doubt they will change their model unless they have no other choice.
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Old 29th Nov 2019, 05:23
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
Point of order, other than a very few routes not sanctioned by major partners, regionals donít set ticket prices.
I would be very interested to know, who sets the ticket prices then?

I expect that the routes "sanctioned" by major partners are more a contract of a service with a minimum of "x" passenger capability for a fixed price - certainly not a ticket price. The aircraft type and capacity is then up to the regional operator/airline to make that fixed price work, and there are vast options there on aircraft to use such as age, max seating, cargo area and quality of service to work with.
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Old 29th Nov 2019, 05:31
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Junkflyer View Post
SWA business model is about simplicity.
Single type means lower training costs for pilots and mechanics as well as cost savings on parts. A broken airplane is replaced by a similar spare, seats are all the same.
They have plenty of growth, now flying to the Hawaiian islands.
I doubt they will change their model unless they have no other choice.
You see a new 737 beyond the MAX, if they do not start thinking about a replacement/s now it will be too late.
If there is another MAX stabiliser trim issue (or NG) they will be grounded again and possibly forever - the 737 will then be history and so will SWA.

SWA will had had this discussion at the Board level. It will be bonuses against long term vision/and insurance - guess what will win.
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Old 29th Nov 2019, 05:50
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post
I would be very interested to know, who sets the ticket prices then?

I expect that the routes "sanctioned" by major partners are more a contract of a service with a minimum of "x" passenger capability for a fixed price - certainly not a ticket price. The aircraft type and capacity is then up to the regional operator/airline to make that fixed price work, and there are vast options there on aircraft to use such as age, max seating, cargo area and quality of service to work with.
The major sets the price. You buy a ticket at Major.com from Europe to a small town in the US. You fly a 777 to a hub, then hop on to Major Connect to the smaller town. The Express carrier must operate the aircraft type specified in the agreement.
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Old 29th Nov 2019, 08:13
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by misd-agin View Post
Equal distance from DAL, AUS, and IAH is about a 2 hr drive to all three airports. Kosse, TX is between 1:55 and 2:10 to all 3 airports. I'm not sure people are aware of how uninhabited the western U.S. states can be.
Not sure if I got your point right but in Europe, living in megapolis city can still easily take you 1,5-2 hours drive through the traffic to airport. There are numerous areas in Central/Western Europe where the nearest airport served by airline(s) is 2-3 hours away in an average traffic.
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Old 29th Nov 2019, 14:10
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CargoOne View Post
Not sure if I got your point right but in Europe, living in megapolis city can still easily take you 1,5-2 hours drive through the traffic to airport. There are numerous areas in Central/Western Europe where the nearest airport served by airline(s) is 2-3 hours away in an average traffic.
The OP commented about a customer complaining that he had to drive 2 hrs to get to an airport served by SW. If his local population density supported more travel the market would respond.

If that customer lived in the western U.S. he might have a 3.5 hr drive to a one city served by mainline aircraft. Out west, if he's willing to fly on regional jets he'd have at least two options within 3.5 hrs. If he's willing to fly on single engine commuters he'd have more options. The customer's complaint was about the distance to find a population density that supports larger aircraft. Would he be the first to complain about the traffic density that comes with the population needed to support larger aircraft and more frequent service? If it doesn't support at least 3-4 flights a day SW isn't interested. In the eastern U.S., if you lived in the right location, you could have access to five hubs within 2 hours because of the population density.

With traffic an hour drive into any major city can take 2 hours or longer. That's true in Europe, the U.S., Asia, or S. America.
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Old 29th Nov 2019, 20:23
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post
I would be very interested to know, who sets the ticket prices then?

I expect that the routes "sanctioned" by major partners are more a contract of a service with a minimum of "x" passenger capability for a fixed price - certainly not a ticket price. The aircraft type and capacity is then up to the regional operator/airline to make that fixed price work, and there are vast options there on aircraft to use such as age, max seating, cargo area and quality of service to work with.

In the US its set by the partner whose paint job is on the side of the aircraft. Regional carriers are contracted lift. They’re not stand alone carriers with their own ticketing/reservation system. Type/capacity is largely a function of scope and CPA.
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 12:39
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cxorcist View Post
Clearly, another type doesnít work well within the SWA model. They acquired many 717s from AirTran which both Delta and Hawaiian Airlines operate profitably. They clearly didnít find value there. I find it highly unlikely that SWA will order A220-100 or -300. I think itís far more likely that SWA orders Max10 or perhaps a Boeing NMA for growth.
It seem a bit inconsistent. SWA doesn't work well with another type, or the much larger NMA is likely. You can't have both

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Old 3rd Dec 2019, 14:52
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by keesje View Post
It seem a bit inconsistent. SWA doesn't work well with another type, or the much larger NMA is likely. You can't have both
They will however both have yokes and be assembled in the US by a US owned company called Boeing assuming the NMA ever sees the light of day.....
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Old 4th Dec 2019, 01:47
  #37 (permalink)  
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Don't we have a.nother forum for NMA, NSA, FSA, and all other Boeing abbreviated future planes, where you can argue for months about their technical specs' suitability for certain airlines, and where noone cares that we know absolutely nothing about those programs' contents, intentions or existence?
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