Turkish nose gear collapse in Odessa, Ukraine

[TBSC]

B738 on flight TK467 IST-ODS, nose gear collapse, second approach after a go around and some holding.
Passengers avacuated on the runway.
Both ILSs inop, displaced threshold with no lights whatsoever on RWY34 . Only approach is NDB on RWY16, wind of 07008G13MPS reported.
http://www.aviation24.be/airlines/turki ... raine/amp/

[Otterman]

Can be challenging. Scheduled time is 20:45 local time you mentioned no lights. Are you referring to the lack of approach lights on runway 16. Or no approach and runway lights whatsoever? Runway 34 has approach lights. Don’t see any NOTAMs about lights being out. Or for that matter the ILS’s. Landing without runway lights at night is only if you are out of all options and against any rule I am aware of. With modern Boeing equipment flying an NDB approach is not that complicated either flying it in IAN or LNAV/VNAV. Raises questions which will be answered in due time I guess.

[TBSC]

Both ILSs are out of service (see NOTAM with the nice wording "procedures suspended"). No approach lights/PAPI on RWY34 because of the displaced threshold. Only approach is NDB RWY16. No circling is permitted to RWY36 for lack of lights/darkness. Poor quality runway surface. The new runway (under construction for 2 years) is close to being complete, expected to be open soon (someone in the know might update us when?). Obviously they had to start with building a shiny new terminal first because that's what you need the most for safe operation.

[gearlever]

Originally Posted by TBSC

Both ILSs are out of service (see NOTAM with the nice wording "procedures suspended"). No approach lights/PAPI on RWY34 because of the displaced threshold. Only approach is NDB RWY16. No circling is permitted to RWY36 for lack of lights/darkness. Poor quality runway surface. The new runway (under construction for 2 years) is close to being complete, expected to be open soon (someone in the know might update us when?). Obviously they had to start with building a shiny new terminal first because that's what you need the most for safe operation.

UKOO 211900Z 09011MPS 060V130 9999 OVC018 02/M01 Q1030 R16/090060 NOSIG=
UKOO 211832Z 09011G17MPS 050V120 9999 -SN OVC017 02/M01 Q1030 R16/090060 NOSIG=

Okay, no ILS, just NDB, but with OVC017....?

[golfyankeesierra]

Originally Posted by gearlever

UKOO 211900Z 09011MPS 060V130 9999 OVC018 02/M01 Q1030 R16/090060 NOSIG=
UKOO 211832Z 09011G17MPS 050V120 9999 -SN OVC017 02/M01 Q1030 R16/090060 NOSIG=

Okay, no ILS, just NDB, but with OVC017....?

issue here is (lack of) lighting.. (and which?)

[Austrian Simon]

Originally Posted by TBSC

Both ILSs are out of service (see NOTAM with the nice wording "procedures suspended"). No approach lights/PAPI on RWY34 because of the displaced threshold. Only approach is NDB RWY16. No circling is permitted to RWY36 for lack of lights/darkness. Poor quality runway surface. The new runway (under construction for 2 years) is close to being complete, expected to be open soon (someone in the know might update us when?). Obviously they had to start with building a shiny new terminal first because that's what you need the most for safe operation.

Can you please quote the NOTAMs?

No such NOTAM was active on Nov 21st 2019 and no such NOTAM was active on Nov 22nd 2019 or currently. In fact, only a number of RNP procedures are "not authorized" for military (US DOD) operations, but none of the ILS, VOR, runway or approach lightings are NOTAMed out of service or any related procedure suspended. All NOTAMs that were active on Nov 21st 2019:

A3503/19 NOTAMR A3118/19
Q) UKOV/QMBCH/IV/BO /A /000/999/4626N03041E005
A) UKOO B) 1910100830 C) 1912312359
E) NEW PCN INSTALLED:
RWY 16/34 PCN 45/R/B/X/U
TWY 1 PCN 46/R/B/X/U
TWY 2 PCN 27/R/B/X/U
TWY 6 PCN 23/R/B/X/U
APRON K (STANDS 1-4, 23) PCN 23/R/C/X/U.
A3813/19 NOTAMN
Q) UKOV/QMPLC/IV/BO /A /000/999/4626N03041E005
A) UKOO B) 1910311800 C) 1912311800
E) STANDS 55-60 CLOSED DUE TO REPAIR.
A3570/19 NOTAMR A3247/19
Q) UKOV/QFAHW/IV/NBO/A /000/999/4626N03041E005
A) UKOO B) 1910181200 C) 1912181700
E) DIGGING WIP. RWY 16 120M TO THE WEST PARALLEL RCL
1075M-1845M FM THR RWY 16.
EQPT HGT 4M.
DAY MARKED.
W2713/19 NOTAMN
Q) UKOV/QPDGV/IV/NBO/A/000/999/4625N03040E005
A) UKOO
B) 1911141408
C) 1912050001
E) AERODROME [US DOD E-IPL ONLY] SID NORTH DIRECTION RWY 34 BUNAG 2F, ODSAN 1F, RATNO
2F, RETRO 2F, SURAP 2F, TURSA 2F, VAKOM 1F, XONKO 1F DERIVED FROM HOST SOURCE ON 21 OCT
2019 NOT AUTHORIZED
W2715/19 NOTAMN
Q) UKOV/QPDGV/IV/NBO/A/000/999/4625N03040E005
A) UKOO
B) 1911141410
C) 1912050001
E) AERODROME [US DOD E-IPL ONLY] SID SOUTH DIRECTION RWY 16 AMGOL 2E, BANID 2E, BUNAG
2E, KOSAK 2E, MOKAD 2E, PERED 2E, RATNO 2E, TARKA 2E DERIVED FROM HOST SOURCE ON 21 OCT
2019 NOT AUTHORIZED
W2717/19 NOTAMN
Q) UKOV/QPDGV/IV/NBO/A/000/999/4625N03040E005
A) UKOO
B) 1911141412
C) 1912050001
E) AERODROME [US DOD E-IPL ONLY] SID NORTH DIRECTION RWY 16 ODSAN 1E, RETRO 2E, SURAP
2E, TURSA 2E, VAKOM 1E, XONKO 1E DERIVED FROM HOST SOURCE ON 21 OCT 2019 NOT AUTHORIZED
W2719/19 NOTAMN
Q) UKOV/QPDGV/IV/NBO/A/000/999/4625N03040E005
A) UKOO
B) 1911141414
C) 1912050001
E) AERODROME [US DOD E-IPL ONLY] RNAV GNSS SID RWY 16 ODSAN 1W, RETRO 2W, SURAP 2W,
TURSA 2W, VAKOM 1W, XONKO 1W DERIVED FROM HOST SOURCE ON 17 OCT 2019 NOT AUTHORIZED
W2721/19 NOTAMN
Q) UKOV/QPDGV/IV/NBO/A/000/999/4625N03040E005
PDF generated by Federal NOTAM Systems on: 2019-11-22 17:59:04 UTC Page 1 of 3
A) UKOO
B) 1911141416
C) 1912050001
E) AERODROME [US DOD E-IPL ONLY] RNAV GNSS SID RWY 34 BUNAG 2X, ODSAN 1X, PERED 2X,
RATNO 2X, RETRO 2X, SURAP 2X, TURSA 2X, VAKOM 1X, XONKO 1X DERIVED FROM HOST SOURCE ON
17 OCT 2019 NOT AUTHORIZED
W2722/19 NOTAMN
Q) UKOV/QPDGV/IV/NBO/A/000/999/4625N03040E005
A) UKOO
B) 1911141417
C) 1912050001
E) AERODROME [US DOD E-IPL ONLY] RNAV GNSS SID RWY 34 AMGOL 2X, BANID 2X, KOSAK 2X,
MOKAD 2X, TARKA 2X DERIVED FROM HOST SOURCE ON 16 OCT 2019 NOT AUTHORIZED
W2724/19 NOTAMN
Q) UKOV/QPDGV/IV/NBO/A/000/999/4625N03040E005
A) UKOO
B) 1911141418
C) 1912050001
E) AERODROME [US DOD E-IPL ONLY] RNAV GNSS SID RWY 16 AMGOL 2W, BANID 2W, BUNAG 2W,
KOSAK 2W, MOKAD 2W, PERED 2W, RATNO 2W, TARKA 2W DERIVED FROM HOST SOURCE ON 16 OCT 2019
NOT AUTHORIZED
W2726/19 NOTAMN
Q) UKOV/QPDGV/IV/NBO/A/000/999/4625N03040E005
A) UKOO
B) 1911141420
C) 1912050001
E) AERODROME [US DOD E-IPL ONLY] SID SOUTH DIRECTION RWY 34 AMGOL 2F, BANID 2F, KOSAK
2F, MOKAD 2F, PERED 2F, TARKA 2F DERIVED FROM HOST SOURCE ON 21 OCT 2019 NOT AUTHORIZED
A3883/19 NOTAMN
Q) UKOV/QLRXX/IV/NBO/A /000/999/4626N03041E005
A) UKOO B) 1911060700 C) 1911301800
E) AVBL. SWITCH-OVER TIME 15 SEC.
A4038/19 NOTAMR A3559/19
Q) UKOV/QFAHW/IV/NBO/A /000/999/4626N03041E005
A) UKOO B) 1911201730 C) 1911301800
E) DIGGING WIP. RWY 16 70M TO THE NORTH FROM THR RWY 16,
80M TO THE WEST AND 80M TO THE EAST
FROM RCL ACROSS RWY 16/34.
TRENCH: LEN 70M, WID 38M, DEPTH 0.7M.
EQPT HGT 4M.
DAY MARKED.
DURING LDG ON RWY 16/34 MEN AND EQPT REMOVED.
A3385/19 NOTAMR A2842/19
Q) UKOV/QFAHW/IV/NBO/A /000/999/4626N03041E005
A) UKOO B) 1909301300 C) 1911301700
E) DIGGING WIP. 340M FM TWY 3 TOWARDS TWY 2 AND
33M TO THE EAST FM MAIN TWY CL.
TRENCH LEN 15M, WID 5M, DEPTH 13M.
EQPT HGT 5M.
DAY MARKED.
A4057/19 NOTAMN
Q) UKOV/QMRXX/IV/NBO/A /000/999/4626N03041E005
A) UKOO B) 1911220900 C) 1911230900
E) AFTER LANDING ACFT A400 ON RWY 16/34
VACATION PERMITTED ON TWY 4 OR TWY 5.
TURN ON 180 DEG FOR VACATION PERMITTED
ABEAM TWY 1 OR TWY 5.
TAXIING ON SEGMENT MAIN TWY BETWEEN
TWY 4 AND TWY 5 AT INNER ENGINES POWER.
A4061/19 NOTAMR A4060/19
PDF generated by Federal NOTAM Systems on: 2019-11-22 17:59:04 UTC Page 2 of 3
Q) UKOV/QMRLC/IV/NBO/A /000/999/4626N03041E005
A) UKOO B) 1911212355 C) 1911221200
E) RWY 16/34 CLOSED.
A4060/19 NOTAMR A4059/19
Q) UKOV/QMRLC/IV/NBO/A /000/999/4626N03041E005
A) UKOO B) 1911212230 C) 1911220800
E) RWY 16/34 CLOSED.
A4059/19 NOTAMN
Q) UKOV/QMRLC/IV/NBO/A /000/999/4626N03041E005
A) UKOO B) 1911212005 C) 1911212300
E) RWY 16/34 CLOSED.
A4053/19 NOTAMN
Q) UKOV/QMRLC/IV/NBO/A /000/999/4626N03041E005
A) UKOO B) 1911211027 C) 1911211200
E) RWY 16/34 CLOSED.

[gearlever]

Originally Posted by Austrian Simon

Can you please quote the NOTAMs?

No such NOTAM was active on Nov 21st 2019 and no such NOTAM was active on Nov 22nd 2019 or currently. In fact, only a number of RNP procedures are "not authorized" for military (US DOD) operations, but none of the ILS, VOR, runway or approach lightings are NOTAMed out of service or any related procedure suspended. All NOTAMs that were active on Nov 21st 2019:

A3503/19 NOTAMR A3118/19
Q) UKOV/QMBCH/IV/BO /A /000/999/4626N03041E005
A) UKOO B) 1910100830 C) 1912312359
E) NEW PCN INSTALLED:
RWY 16/34 PCN 45/R/B/X/U
TWY 1 PCN 46/R/B/X/U
TWY 2 PCN 27/R/B/X/U
TWY 6 PCN 23/R/B/X/U
APRON K (STANDS 1-4, 23) PCN 23/R/C/X/U.
A3813/19 NOTAMN
Q) UKOV/QMPLC/IV/BO /A /000/999/4626N03041E005
A) UKOO B) 1910311800 C) 1912311800
E) STANDS 55-60 CLOSED DUE TO REPAIR.
A3570/19 NOTAMR A3247/19
Q) UKOV/QFAHW/IV/NBO/A /000/999/4626N03041E005
A) UKOO B) 1910181200 C) 1912181700
E) DIGGING WIP. RWY 16 120M TO THE WEST PARALLEL RCL
1075M-1845M FM THR RWY 16.
EQPT HGT 4M.
DAY MARKED.
W2713/19 NOTAMN
Q) UKOV/QPDGV/IV/NBO/A/000/999/4625N03040E005
A) UKOO
B) 1911141408
C) 1912050001
E) AERODROME [US DOD E-IPL ONLY] SID NORTH DIRECTION RWY 34 BUNAG 2F, ODSAN 1F, RATNO
2F, RETRO 2F, SURAP 2F, TURSA 2F, VAKOM 1F, XONKO 1F DERIVED FROM HOST SOURCE ON 21 OCT
2019 NOT AUTHORIZED
W2715/19 NOTAMN
Q) UKOV/QPDGV/IV/NBO/A/000/999/4625N03040E005
A) UKOO
B) 1911141410
C) 1912050001
E) AERODROME [US DOD E-IPL ONLY] SID SOUTH DIRECTION RWY 16 AMGOL 2E, BANID 2E, BUNAG
2E, KOSAK 2E, MOKAD 2E, PERED 2E, RATNO 2E, TARKA 2E DERIVED FROM HOST SOURCE ON 21 OCT
2019 NOT AUTHORIZED
W2717/19 NOTAMN
Q) UKOV/QPDGV/IV/NBO/A/000/999/4625N03040E005
A) UKOO
B) 1911141412
C) 1912050001
E) AERODROME [US DOD E-IPL ONLY] SID NORTH DIRECTION RWY 16 ODSAN 1E, RETRO 2E, SURAP
2E, TURSA 2E, VAKOM 1E, XONKO 1E DERIVED FROM HOST SOURCE ON 21 OCT 2019 NOT AUTHORIZED
W2719/19 NOTAMN
Q) UKOV/QPDGV/IV/NBO/A/000/999/4625N03040E005
A) UKOO
B) 1911141414
C) 1912050001
E) AERODROME [US DOD E-IPL ONLY] RNAV GNSS SID RWY 16 ODSAN 1W, RETRO 2W, SURAP 2W,
TURSA 2W, VAKOM 1W, XONKO 1W DERIVED FROM HOST SOURCE ON 17 OCT 2019 NOT AUTHORIZED
W2721/19 NOTAMN
Q) UKOV/QPDGV/IV/NBO/A/000/999/4625N03040E005
PDF generated by Federal NOTAM Systems on: 2019-11-22 17:59:04 UTC Page 1 of 3
A) UKOO
B) 1911141416
C) 1912050001
E) AERODROME [US DOD E-IPL ONLY] RNAV GNSS SID RWY 34 BUNAG 2X, ODSAN 1X, PERED 2X,
RATNO 2X, RETRO 2X, SURAP 2X, TURSA 2X, VAKOM 1X, XONKO 1X DERIVED FROM HOST SOURCE ON
17 OCT 2019 NOT AUTHORIZED
W2722/19 NOTAMN
Q) UKOV/QPDGV/IV/NBO/A/000/999/4625N03040E005
A) UKOO
B) 1911141417
C) 1912050001
E) AERODROME [US DOD E-IPL ONLY] RNAV GNSS SID RWY 34 AMGOL 2X, BANID 2X, KOSAK 2X,
MOKAD 2X, TARKA 2X DERIVED FROM HOST SOURCE ON 16 OCT 2019 NOT AUTHORIZED
W2724/19 NOTAMN
Q) UKOV/QPDGV/IV/NBO/A/000/999/4625N03040E005
A) UKOO
B) 1911141418
C) 1912050001
E) AERODROME [US DOD E-IPL ONLY] RNAV GNSS SID RWY 16 AMGOL 2W, BANID 2W, BUNAG 2W,
KOSAK 2W, MOKAD 2W, PERED 2W, RATNO 2W, TARKA 2W DERIVED FROM HOST SOURCE ON 16 OCT 2019
NOT AUTHORIZED
W2726/19 NOTAMN
Q) UKOV/QPDGV/IV/NBO/A/000/999/4625N03040E005
A) UKOO
B) 1911141420
C) 1912050001
E) AERODROME [US DOD E-IPL ONLY] SID SOUTH DIRECTION RWY 34 AMGOL 2F, BANID 2F, KOSAK
2F, MOKAD 2F, PERED 2F, TARKA 2F DERIVED FROM HOST SOURCE ON 21 OCT 2019 NOT AUTHORIZED
A3883/19 NOTAMN
Q) UKOV/QLRXX/IV/NBO/A /000/999/4626N03041E005
A) UKOO B) 1911060700 C) 1911301800
E) AVBL. SWITCH-OVER TIME 15 SEC.
A4038/19 NOTAMR A3559/19
Q) UKOV/QFAHW/IV/NBO/A /000/999/4626N03041E005
A) UKOO B) 1911201730 C) 1911301800
E) DIGGING WIP. RWY 16 70M TO THE NORTH FROM THR RWY 16,
80M TO THE WEST AND 80M TO THE EAST
FROM RCL ACROSS RWY 16/34.
TRENCH: LEN 70M, WID 38M, DEPTH 0.7M.
EQPT HGT 4M.
DAY MARKED.
DURING LDG ON RWY 16/34 MEN AND EQPT REMOVED.
A3385/19 NOTAMR A2842/19
Q) UKOV/QFAHW/IV/NBO/A /000/999/4626N03041E005
A) UKOO B) 1909301300 C) 1911301700
E) DIGGING WIP. 340M FM TWY 3 TOWARDS TWY 2 AND
33M TO THE EAST FM MAIN TWY CL.
TRENCH LEN 15M, WID 5M, DEPTH 13M.
EQPT HGT 5M.
DAY MARKED.
A4057/19 NOTAMN
Q) UKOV/QMRXX/IV/NBO/A /000/999/4626N03041E005
A) UKOO B) 1911220900 C) 1911230900
E) AFTER LANDING ACFT A400 ON RWY 16/34
VACATION PERMITTED ON TWY 4 OR TWY 5.
TURN ON 180 DEG FOR VACATION PERMITTED
ABEAM TWY 1 OR TWY 5.
TAXIING ON SEGMENT MAIN TWY BETWEEN
TWY 4 AND TWY 5 AT INNER ENGINES POWER.
A4061/19 NOTAMR A4060/19
PDF generated by Federal NOTAM Systems on: 2019-11-22 17:59:04 UTC Page 2 of 3
Q) UKOV/QMRLC/IV/NBO/A /000/999/4626N03041E005
A) UKOO B) 1911212355 C) 1911221200
E) RWY 16/34 CLOSED.
A4060/19 NOTAMR A4059/19
Q) UKOV/QMRLC/IV/NBO/A /000/999/4626N03041E005
A) UKOO B) 1911212230 C) 1911220800
E) RWY 16/34 CLOSED.
A4059/19 NOTAMN
Q) UKOV/QMRLC/IV/NBO/A /000/999/4626N03041E005
A) UKOO B) 1911212005 C) 1911212300
E) RWY 16/34 CLOSED.
A4053/19 NOTAMN
Q) UKOV/QMRLC/IV/NBO/A /000/999/4626N03041E005
A) UKOO B) 1911211027 C) 1911211200
E) RWY 16/34 CLOSED.

Simon, it's a Rumour Network

[TBSC]

The NOTAM which was still in force in the morning of 21NOV (est. until 1800 UTC/30NOV):

1A3632/19 VALID: 23-OCT-19 0840 - 30-NOV-19 1800
ILS (LOC, GP) RWY 16/34 OUT OF SERVICE

Not sure if it was revoked before or after the two incidents.

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by TBSC

B738 on flight TK467 IST-ODS, nose gear collapse, second approach after a go around and some holding.

Yes, ADS-B suggests that the aircraft went around from approximately 200' AAL around half an hour before the landing.

[Austrian Simon]

Originally Posted by TBSC

The NOTAM which was still in force in the morning of 21NOV (est. until 1800 UTC/30NOV):

1A3632/19 VALID: 23-OCT-19 0840 - 30-NOV-19 1800
ILS (LOC, GP) RWY 16/34 OUT OF SERVICE

Not sure if it was revoked before or after the two incidents.

Thanks a lot, I found it was cancelled during Nov 20th 2019, it was still active in the morning of Nov 20th 2019 and no longer active by the end of the day (in UTC), cancelled at some (unknown) time during the day.