ERJ 145 off piste at O’ Hare
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Does the ERJ have rudder blanking when too much reverse is used, like the MD-80’s do? Looks similar to the MD 80 going off of the runway in LGA with a crosswind last winter.
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Tower gave Envoy 4125 braking action medium to poor. Wind was 360 at 17 knots gusts to 24 in the tower landing clearance. If they were really going for P4 it is away from the terminal to the right and the plane left the runway to the left. Perhaps they weathervaned into the north wind as the plane slowed down on the slick runway.
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In the video you can see the plane departing the runway to the left prior to the 8 thousand feet remaining and P4 taxiway signs. Were they trying to exit N1 perhaps?
If they were really going for P4 it is away from the terminal to the right
Edit: In fact that left turn is N1. Missed that somehow.
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Thanks Ivor, the circumstances I know, they didn't groove the runway I believe. The point was the spoilers retract when the wheels lock up I seem to recall. Never flown them myself.
I don’t know why you wouldn’t bring it in flaps 45 just to reduce the vref and plant it, not a requirement but probably makes more sense.
Flap setting probably wasn’t the cause, could’ve simply have been bad technique, centerline discipline, bad braking and rudder control, who knows. Honestly it’s probably just as simple as they hit a bad patch.
The crew was led to believe that the runway was 5/5/5 and braking action med. So well within allowable limits for that aircraft, sounds like a dud report of prevailing conditions.
Last edited by havick; 12th Nov 2019 at 02:02.
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My impression from the video is that the aircraft acquired a slight left drift after touchdown, followed by a drift right almost to the right runway edge, followed by the left ground-loop (a bit hard to be sure with snow-covered markings and bare strips). Appears to have collapsed at least the right main gear in the final sideways skid (judder-judder-judder-Bam!), causing the wing drop.
See pictures at AH: Accident: Envoy E145 at Chicago on Nov 11th 2019, runway excursion on landing
A tough day at the office - looking forward to more details. Shades of Continental 1404 in Denver (2009) - localized wind gust(s) outside the detected range?
I do not think this was an attempt to make an exit.
See pictures at AH: Accident: Envoy E145 at Chicago on Nov 11th 2019, runway excursion on landing
A tough day at the office - looking forward to more details. Shades of Continental 1404 in Denver (2009) - localized wind gust(s) outside the detected range?
I do not think this was an attempt to make an exit.
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To be honest, it looks like a complete loss of control on ice. A good crosswind for sure. I see in the weather reports that the temp was -4 but you can see with the multiple reports that it is dropping fairly quickly even though it was morning where the temp might be steady or increasing soon.
This has the hallmarks of a cold front coming through a few hours earlier and what the local papers around here call a flash freeze. The temperature was a few degrees above freezing with a wet runway, perhaps some drizzle. Then the cold front hits with strong winds and snow which initially melts, then starts to freeze creating ice. Snow continues as we can see and it looks like snow over pavement but it is ice or ice patches below. Reminds me of the AC 767 that lost control in Halifax last winter.
Monitor the weather and beware of flash freezes. Looks like a situation where a diversion would be a good idea. Or let someone land in front of you and get a pirep. Early morning arrival after an overnight cold front passage.
This has the hallmarks of a cold front coming through a few hours earlier and what the local papers around here call a flash freeze. The temperature was a few degrees above freezing with a wet runway, perhaps some drizzle. Then the cold front hits with strong winds and snow which initially melts, then starts to freeze creating ice. Snow continues as we can see and it looks like snow over pavement but it is ice or ice patches below. Reminds me of the AC 767 that lost control in Halifax last winter.
Monitor the weather and beware of flash freezes. Looks like a situation where a diversion would be a good idea. Or let someone land in front of you and get a pirep. Early morning arrival after an overnight cold front passage.
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From a controllers point of view.... oups.... runway closed for some time.
With the number of operations, and adding in winter conditions, this is what happens sometimes, and the reason safety zones are established.
On another note, I've been doing run ups on the runway, which is normally an absolutely nono... simply because the conditions on the taxiways and aprons didn't allow for it.... aircraft would start skidding when adding power. I've even seen slow taxiing aircraft being swung around in gusty conditions (the conversation was rather fun afterwards).
With the number of operations, and adding in winter conditions, this is what happens sometimes, and the reason safety zones are established.
On another note, I've been doing run ups on the runway, which is normally an absolutely nono... simply because the conditions on the taxiways and aprons didn't allow for it.... aircraft would start skidding when adding power. I've even seen slow taxiing aircraft being swung around in gusty conditions (the conversation was rather fun afterwards).
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I wonder why they elected the runway with the most cross wind component, during slippery runway conditions, when the airport has plenty of other options? Is it only runway 10/28 that offers landing aids for low ceiling/visibility?
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With the ongoing construction, ORD only has one runway (4R/22L) that is not east/west and it is only a little over 8000 feet long.
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Wind 360/17g24 on rwy 10 with braking action Med-poor? Is that really true? Because for that there would be only one word: cowboys!
On my type it would be way out of limits (limit for med would be 20 cross).
Anyone the croswindlimits for that type?
On my type it would be way out of limits (limit for med would be 20 cross).
Anyone the croswindlimits for that type?
