Airport security
Join Date: Jan 2005
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I travel commercially to get to my aircraft and probably fly on average about once per week. I have a femural nail from an accident years ago but am “assured” the scanners don’t pick it up. I also have an abutment (metal screw) in my skull for a hearing aid but again am assured the scanners don’t pick it up. I get “hand patted” about 75% of the time so have now learned to smile sweetly and just get on with it.
What does get me is that when I get to the airport where the jet is, I am allowed to walk out to the aircraft without passing through security with my bags etc - but when I come back to the terminal to walk the boss through I have to go through security just as he does. And the logic is....????
What does get me is that when I get to the airport where the jet is, I am allowed to walk out to the aircraft without passing through security with my bags etc - but when I come back to the terminal to walk the boss through I have to go through security just as he does. And the logic is....????
Last edited by Duchess_Driver; 4th Nov 2019 at 07:53.
I Have Control
Join Date: May 2004
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Nail scissors versus Fire Axe?
Bottle of water versus 64 tons of Jet A-1?
Stupid rules versus common sense?
If only all security folks could enforce the stupid rules with a nice tone of voice, showing respect for the passenger...Some do, but many do not. They do help many people choose not to travel by air, perhaps a good thing.
Bottle of water versus 64 tons of Jet A-1?
Stupid rules versus common sense?
If only all security folks could enforce the stupid rules with a nice tone of voice, showing respect for the passenger...Some do, but many do not. They do help many people choose not to travel by air, perhaps a good thing.
The absence of a trusted traveller program outside the US for someone like me who spends as much time flying as crew (but as pax) is appalling. I think we have it on pretty good authority that putting needless PC issues aside, profiling your potential evildoer is a piece of cake and a worldwide "TSA PRE" like program could safely be instated.
Security at Heathrow T5 has been so appallingly and abysmally poor, slow, and inefficient, taking between 1-2 hours to get through every single time (in the fast track lane, mind you!), that I am now actively avoiding flying through LHR. Not that there are plenty of other reasons to stay away from that cesspit of uncivil aviation, the well travelled reader will add. Lost my sh*t there a couple of months ago and had a good long conversation with the duty manager who turned out to be some aloof and detached middle aged person who left no doubt in anyone's mind that they didn't care about our "experience". People were missing their flights, several of us with time to "spare" (i.e. didn't have tight connections) were letting other pax who were about to miss theirs jump the queue. It was so bad that several of us who had been letting people jump forward actually revolted and we made it a group complaint with the manager. Which of course didn't result in anything else but more time wasted. Security and airports are feedback resistant.
Security at Heathrow T5 has been so appallingly and abysmally poor, slow, and inefficient, taking between 1-2 hours to get through every single time (in the fast track lane, mind you!), that I am now actively avoiding flying through LHR. Not that there are plenty of other reasons to stay away from that cesspit of uncivil aviation, the well travelled reader will add. Lost my sh*t there a couple of months ago and had a good long conversation with the duty manager who turned out to be some aloof and detached middle aged person who left no doubt in anyone's mind that they didn't care about our "experience". People were missing their flights, several of us with time to "spare" (i.e. didn't have tight connections) were letting other pax who were about to miss theirs jump the queue. It was so bad that several of us who had been letting people jump forward actually revolted and we made it a group complaint with the manager. Which of course didn't result in anything else but more time wasted. Security and airports are feedback resistant.
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Hi everyone, I’ve been a long term lurker on this site but never really posted, seeing as I’m not a pilot in any professional capacity but I do have a huge interest in aviation. I got as far as going solo for my PPL but had to stop due to monetary requirements unfortunately.
This topic has tweaked my ears though seeing as I work as a security officer at BHX, maybe I can give a little insight into some of the issues.
As some of you have said, the attitude of some of my colleagues towards passengers and crew does make me cringe. There’s just no need for it. I will always be polite and respectful to every person I meet, on what ever position I am working on at that time. Having said that, the way I am spoken to by some passengers and crew makes my blood boil.
Regarding the first post about the body scanner, the reason I ask the individual to remove any items out of their pockets including tissues is because it is an external scanner. Once you are scanned, it will show different orange zones on a generic stick figure that we need hand search. If I can get everything out of your pockets, there’s a decent chance the scanner will display an ‘ok’ message and you won’t need any hand search. Unfortunately the scanner is susceptible to body heat and sweat, resulting in the crotch area being highlighted.
Walking through the metal detector, it will detect metal but it will also alarm at random intervals and ratios. The individual that ‘randoms’ will have a body scan and their shoes swabbed.
As far as I’m concerned, asking someone to remove some tissue isn’t having a lack of humanity, it’s trying to help you get through with the minimal of fuss. Remember, I don’t want my hands round your sweaty crotch any more than you do!
Last week I had the pleasure of being under the eye of a CAA Inspector. All rules and procedures we follow come from the EASA with the CAA being the nominated regulatory authority. There is no grey areas when it comes to the CAA, liquid bags must seal, liquids, no matter how small must be out of the cabin bags, etc, etc, etc. Therefore, when someone asks for some understanding or leaway with regards to an oversize liquid or whatever, what they are expecting me to do is basically jeopardise my position, which I will not do. I won’t be pillock about it and I have no power to take anything off you, I will ask you to surrender it of check it in but that is as far as my ‘power’ goes. What I do have under my sleeve though is, if you don’t want to surrender the prohibited item, your travel goes no further. Again I won’t be an arse about it but I won’t tolerate any abuse from any passenger or crew and until these new X-ray machines arrive, it’s going to be like this.
Now, being regarded as uneducated is just plain insulting. I’m far from uneducated and take great pride in what I do. People seem to forget that my main aim, as I have said to many passengers, is to prevent their family turning on the TV one day and seeing their aeroplane spread across a field, be it being caused my bomb or whatever. That training and compliance is constantly ongoing and monitored. Yes we may be the last line of defence and I imagine intelligence plays a bigger part in stopping threats, but nevertheless, we are needed and I make sure I am always professional in whatever I am doing.
Anyway, I hope maybe that helps as to why some things are done.
This topic has tweaked my ears though seeing as I work as a security officer at BHX, maybe I can give a little insight into some of the issues.
As some of you have said, the attitude of some of my colleagues towards passengers and crew does make me cringe. There’s just no need for it. I will always be polite and respectful to every person I meet, on what ever position I am working on at that time. Having said that, the way I am spoken to by some passengers and crew makes my blood boil.
Regarding the first post about the body scanner, the reason I ask the individual to remove any items out of their pockets including tissues is because it is an external scanner. Once you are scanned, it will show different orange zones on a generic stick figure that we need hand search. If I can get everything out of your pockets, there’s a decent chance the scanner will display an ‘ok’ message and you won’t need any hand search. Unfortunately the scanner is susceptible to body heat and sweat, resulting in the crotch area being highlighted.
Walking through the metal detector, it will detect metal but it will also alarm at random intervals and ratios. The individual that ‘randoms’ will have a body scan and their shoes swabbed.
As far as I’m concerned, asking someone to remove some tissue isn’t having a lack of humanity, it’s trying to help you get through with the minimal of fuss. Remember, I don’t want my hands round your sweaty crotch any more than you do!
Last week I had the pleasure of being under the eye of a CAA Inspector. All rules and procedures we follow come from the EASA with the CAA being the nominated regulatory authority. There is no grey areas when it comes to the CAA, liquid bags must seal, liquids, no matter how small must be out of the cabin bags, etc, etc, etc. Therefore, when someone asks for some understanding or leaway with regards to an oversize liquid or whatever, what they are expecting me to do is basically jeopardise my position, which I will not do. I won’t be pillock about it and I have no power to take anything off you, I will ask you to surrender it of check it in but that is as far as my ‘power’ goes. What I do have under my sleeve though is, if you don’t want to surrender the prohibited item, your travel goes no further. Again I won’t be an arse about it but I won’t tolerate any abuse from any passenger or crew and until these new X-ray machines arrive, it’s going to be like this.
Now, being regarded as uneducated is just plain insulting. I’m far from uneducated and take great pride in what I do. People seem to forget that my main aim, as I have said to many passengers, is to prevent their family turning on the TV one day and seeing their aeroplane spread across a field, be it being caused my bomb or whatever. That training and compliance is constantly ongoing and monitored. Yes we may be the last line of defence and I imagine intelligence plays a bigger part in stopping threats, but nevertheless, we are needed and I make sure I am always professional in whatever I am doing.
Anyway, I hope maybe that helps as to why some things are done.
However, what about the regular occurrence of e. g. asking a balding gentleman to confirm an over 14 age, and not accepting any other affirmation than a „Yes Sir!“ style answer? That‘s not common sense, and no way to treat civilian travelers.
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Do all security SOPs really have a rational basis or just a political one? "We have to look like we are doing something."
Israelis seem to be doing quite well with extensive profiling. How about?
Israelis seem to be doing quite well with extensive profiling. How about?
I'm glad most of my rostered flights are from Saudi Arabia, where a security check is all about putting your bag(s) thru xray and saying salam alaikum to the staff. Nothing more. No bullsh*it with liquids, belts, shoes, laptops, ipads, patdowns..
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The Israelis profile ON TOP OF the usual security measures. So what's the point? Are you sure you want the Israeli treatment every time you board a flight? Good luck.
Join Date: May 2006
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A couple of years ago at a UK airport...
Security bloke, rummaging through my flight bag ... "What's this ?"
"it's a torch"
"I see, prove it. Turn it on then"
i did, and unfortunately it shone in his eyes. (O Light tactical, producing many lumens).
"You've just assaulted me. This is serious"
He called his supervisor.
"What's the problem?"
"This pilot has assaulted me by shining his torch at me ! "
"Don't be soft ... have a safe flight Captain"
.... some do have common sense..
Security bloke, rummaging through my flight bag ... "What's this ?"
"it's a torch"
"I see, prove it. Turn it on then"
i did, and unfortunately it shone in his eyes. (O Light tactical, producing many lumens).
"You've just assaulted me. This is serious"
He called his supervisor.
"What's the problem?"
"This pilot has assaulted me by shining his torch at me ! "
"Don't be soft ... have a safe flight Captain"
.... some do have common sense..
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I got a full body scan by those round tubes, then went for the hand held metal detector all over and then finally a pat down when going through one day. What the hell is the point of checking someone 3 seperate times? Shouldn't one suffice?
It's not a nice experience doing all these checks on someone
It's not a nice experience doing all these checks on someone
If you pass through the metal detector and alarm due to metal, the co-ordinator will try to resolve the alarm. You then go into the scanner. If you’re a random, your shoes are swabbed and if the individual has religious headwear on and refuses a hand search, that is again is swabbed and a couple of passes with the handheld wand is conducted. This is all a SOP as directed by the CAA. Any deviation from these means a meeting and/or investigation with no tea and biscuits offered.
Of course, all these procedures can be made as easy or as painful as you want them to be. I will always try to have a laugh, a chat, a high five from the kids, anything that’ll make the process a bit more ‘human’ as someone has said. Granted some of my colleagues are total monsters, but we get those in every industry, walk of life or whatever.
There are a lot of nervous passengers around and the last thing they want is some arse of a security officer shouting and balling at them.
I am a firm believer in treating someone how you would like to be treated. On Friday just gone, I had 3 separate families in the space of about 15 mins thank me for being so helpful and kind when helping them sort their electrical and liquids out before they went through the X-ray, they all had to throw over size items away as well
Im getting an increasing amount of passengers mentioning about the amount of plastic used, which I think is totally correct. Having to take liquids out of someone’s permanent clear plastic bag and put them in mine because theirs is oversize, is in my eyes, laughable.
I will always say to stick the liquids in one of our bags to stop the luggage bag being rejected and searched, then give me the bag back and they can stick the liquids back in theirs and I’ll reuse the bag. Totally pointless but hey, it’s what the CAA want.
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I have a phone, no other electronics (by the way most watches are electronics too, ah doesn't count, very logical), no liquids gels or pastes. Binoculars, clothes all under weight limit and size. Very suspicious. Dear wifey has everything else, so far never searched.
And remember next time you grab somebody's balls he might be on the edge.
And remember next time you grab somebody's balls he might be on the edge.
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Actually what irritates me most is that with all probability some kind of profiling is the reason for this harassment. If so, they are so far off the target it scary, can they really pick a baddie? I somehow doubt it.
I find ALL Heathrow really bad for security scanning then Perth Australia domestic and very close second. I'm a frequent traveler with platinum airline status, late 40's and white so I'm ALWAYS taken out of the line with 7 other men of my age group and we are ALL told to open our briefcases, lift out shirts for the random checks while traveling through Perth. I have no issue with the individual checks but my issue comes with stopping up to 8 of us at a time and conducting a random "sniffer" check. It takes ages for all of us to be stopped, lines up, swabbed and wait for the results. No "profiling" is done. I'm told that I'm stopped because I'm an easy target.........thats not the point of a swab test !
Before you all kick off, I am aircrew who travels a lot to get to/from my worksite and really appreciate airport security, I'm ALWAYS polite and and greet them with a smile but as I said, surely it should profile the threats and not the people who are easy to scan?
Before you all kick off, I am aircrew who travels a lot to get to/from my worksite and really appreciate airport security, I'm ALWAYS polite and and greet them with a smile but as I said, surely it should profile the threats and not the people who are easy to scan?
Those that are in front of the public need a political basis before rational
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I appreciate that the plastic bag rule had some logical basis to begin with but surely by now should be revised and applied with common sense. I'm sure most security staff are capable of using some intelligence.
My experience - young daughter had nothing but a small tub of favourite lip balm in a transparent outer pocket of her bag. "Sorry, not allowed as no plastic bag" Kind lady behind says "give it to me", puts it in her plastic bag, goes through security and hands it back. Security and little girl happy 😊
My experience - young daughter had nothing but a small tub of favourite lip balm in a transparent outer pocket of her bag. "Sorry, not allowed as no plastic bag" Kind lady behind says "give it to me", puts it in her plastic bag, goes through security and hands it back. Security and little girl happy 😊
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Aside from looking forward to the potential pat down at a couple of Swedish airports; my favourite security staff work at a large Bavarian airport. Got a drink with you? No problem just put it in the drinks holder through the scanner in crew search.
wouldn't want to waste good coffee.
wouldn't want to waste good coffee.
Nail scissors versus Fire Axe?
Bottle of water versus 64 tons of Jet A-1?
Stupid rules versus common sense?
If only all security folks could enforce the stupid rules with a nice tone of voice, showing respect for the passenger...Some do, but many do not. They do help many people choose not to travel by air, perhaps a good thing.
Bottle of water versus 64 tons of Jet A-1?
Stupid rules versus common sense?
If only all security folks could enforce the stupid rules with a nice tone of voice, showing respect for the passenger...Some do, but many do not. They do help many people choose not to travel by air, perhaps a good thing.
Strangely, only once whilst standing in a line in full uniform, was I asked by security staff at Johannesburg Airport to take my had out of my pocket......... impertinent twats!
Some scanners are programmed for random stops so even if you went through stark naked it could still flag you for a search, just in case anyone is wondering why some days you beep and some you don't even though you're dressed exactly the same.
X-ray machines randomly display an image of a gun in a bag going through the machine to check if the operator is actually paying attention.
Some of these to**ers are working as security screeners because they failed the intelligence and personality tests to be wheel clampers.
X-ray machines randomly display an image of a gun in a bag going through the machine to check if the operator is actually paying attention.
Some of these to**ers are working as security screeners because they failed the intelligence and personality tests to be wheel clampers.