Airport security
I still have great delight in handing back the small plastic-bag to the security agent after my carry-on etc has been through the scanner. They look completely confused, as if their brains are unable to work through a plan of action which is not a normal situation for them.
Once my liquids are in the bag, and in the tray, and going through the scanner, I walk through to the other side; there, I start to re-pack my carry-on bag. I remove my bottle of water from 'their plastic bag' and put the bottle into my carry-on. I hand the plastic bag back to the agent and tell them that I won't be needing it any more and would they like it back?
They usually tell me that I need the plastic bag for my my liquids, so I tell them it's not needed any more as my liquids are now in my carry-on bag, I don't want to litter their area and it's better for the environment. More confusion (for them). Next, they usually explain that it's for 'security reasons', so I ask them where the next security check is between me and the aircraft door, and whether they will have similar plastic bags there?
I've probably got various flags against my name in some database somewhere saying 'stroppy passenger'!
Once my liquids are in the bag, and in the tray, and going through the scanner, I walk through to the other side; there, I start to re-pack my carry-on bag. I remove my bottle of water from 'their plastic bag' and put the bottle into my carry-on. I hand the plastic bag back to the agent and tell them that I won't be needing it any more and would they like it back?
They usually tell me that I need the plastic bag for my my liquids, so I tell them it's not needed any more as my liquids are now in my carry-on bag, I don't want to litter their area and it's better for the environment. More confusion (for them). Next, they usually explain that it's for 'security reasons', so I ask them where the next security check is between me and the aircraft door, and whether they will have similar plastic bags there?
I've probably got various flags against my name in some database somewhere saying 'stroppy passenger'!
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A while back at PVG I got such a thorough patdown from a lovely young female in uniform that I was wondering if I should leave a tip.
I won't go into details but in some situations those of us who chose to carry loaded guns in the cockpit would hold them out at arm's length while being wanded for tweezers in our pockets.
A friend had to remove his uniform parts and repeatedly go through the metal detector. When told to remove his belt he was a little miffed and he tossed it on the x-ray machine. It bounced off and hit a TSA agent who was sitting beside reading a graphic novel (aka a comic book). A report was filed and he operated his trip. Months later he got a call that he had been charged with felony assault of a federal officer. An ALPA lawyer got things negotiated down to a fine and a sealed administrative plea.
A friend had to remove his uniform parts and repeatedly go through the metal detector. When told to remove his belt he was a little miffed and he tossed it on the x-ray machine. It bounced off and hit a TSA agent who was sitting beside reading a graphic novel (aka a comic book). A report was filed and he operated his trip. Months later he got a call that he had been charged with felony assault of a federal officer. An ALPA lawyer got things negotiated down to a fine and a sealed administrative plea.
I heard about a policeman going through security at Heathrow. He had to put his belt, lunch, handcuffs, taser, CS spray and gun through the X Ray machine.
They gave him back his belt, handcuffs, taser, Cs spray and gun but confiscated the yoghurt from his lunch box......
They gave him back his belt, handcuffs, taser, Cs spray and gun but confiscated the yoghurt from his lunch box......
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So the rigidity of their procedure has countered most of the assumed security and also they are constantly irritating people for no useful purpose.
I wonder if glyserol containing hand lotions still sets off the alarm on explosive detectors, used to.
I wonder if glyserol containing hand lotions still sets off the alarm on explosive detectors, used to.
Why would any better educated or more capable person accept such a dull, repetitive dead end job unless the pay was truly outstanding?
Paxing All Over The World
Anodyne
Very much so. We have seen central govt take this route for over 30 years. It looks like devolved authority but it is devolving the blame. There are numerous examples. Ditto for your observation:
Indeed. On several occasisions I asked the folks at Ronaldsway on the Isle of Man why my boots triggered their scanner but not the ones at Luton or Gatwick. He replied that they were all set to the same level. Obviously not! The answer is that they are very sensitive to folks entering the mainland via the Island, particularly from Northern Ireland. This is a perfectly reasonable approach and upping security is valid. No need to lie.
The problem with UK airport security lies higher up the chain of command than the individual gate agent.
The purpose of a regulator is to provide consistent proportionate regulation, not to farm out regulation to allow it to shirk its responsibilities.
... and the scanners themselves seem set to different sensitivities - my metal bracelet watch triggers some but not others.
Why for example when on duty but positioning as a passenger, do I suddenly become a more dangerous person, denied access to my crewroom to get the flight documentation that I will use later to conduct a flight, until the end of the positioning flight when my status magically changes back to that of operating crew, and I am allowed into the places I need to go to do my job?
Someone had blundered.
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die.
Alfred, Lord Tennyson
Not much has changed since 1854 ...
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die.
Alfred, Lord Tennyson
Not much has changed since 1854 ...
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Hi everyone, I’ve been a long term lurker on this site but never really posted, seeing as I’m not a pilot in any professional capacity but I do have a huge interest in aviation. I got as far as going solo for my PPL but had to stop due to monetary requirements unfortunately.
This topic has tweaked my ears though seeing as I work as a security officer at BHX, maybe I can give a little insight into some of the issues.
As some of you have said, the attitude of some of my colleagues towards passengers and crew does make me cringe. There’s just no need for it. I will always be polite and respectful to every person I meet, on what ever position I am working on at that time. Having said that, the way I am spoken to by some passengers and crew makes my blood boil.
Regarding the first post about the body scanner, the reason I ask the individual to remove any items out of their pockets including tissues is because it is an external scanner. Once you are scanned, it will show different orange zones on a generic stick figure that we need hand search. If I can get everything out of your pockets, there’s a decent chance the scanner will display an ‘ok’ message and you won’t need any hand search. Unfortunately the scanner is susceptible to body heat and sweat, resulting in the crotch area being highlighted.
Walking through the metal detector, it will detect metal but it will also alarm at random intervals and ratios. The individual that ‘randoms’ will have a body scan and their shoes swabbed.
As far as I’m concerned, asking someone to remove some tissue isn’t having a lack of humanity, it’s trying to help you get through with the minimal of fuss. Remember, I don’t want my hands round your sweaty crotch any more than you do!
Last week I had the pleasure of being under the eye of a CAA Inspector. All rules and procedures we follow come from the EASA with the CAA being the nominated regulatory authority. There is no grey areas when it comes to the CAA, liquid bags must seal, liquids, no matter how small must be out of the cabin bags, etc, etc, etc. Therefore, when someone asks for some understanding or leaway with regards to an oversize liquid or whatever, what they are expecting me to do is basically jeopardise my position, which I will not do. I won’t be pillock about it and I have no power to take anything off you, I will ask you to surrender it of check it in but that is as far as my ‘power’ goes. What I do have under my sleeve though is, if you don’t want to surrender the prohibited item, your travel goes no further. Again I won’t be an arse about it but I won’t tolerate any abuse from any passenger or crew and until these new X-ray machines arrive, it’s going to be like this.
Now, being regarded as uneducated is just plain insulting. I’m far from uneducated and take great pride in what I do. People seem to forget that my main aim, as I have said to many passengers, is to prevent their family turning on the TV one day and seeing their aeroplane spread across a field, be it being caused my bomb or whatever. That training and compliance is constantly ongoing and monitored. Yes we may be the last line of defence and I imagine intelligence plays a bigger part in stopping threats, but nevertheless, we are needed and I make sure I am always professional in whatever I am doing.
Anyway, I hope maybe that helps as to why some things are done.
This topic has tweaked my ears though seeing as I work as a security officer at BHX, maybe I can give a little insight into some of the issues.
As some of you have said, the attitude of some of my colleagues towards passengers and crew does make me cringe. There’s just no need for it. I will always be polite and respectful to every person I meet, on what ever position I am working on at that time. Having said that, the way I am spoken to by some passengers and crew makes my blood boil.
Regarding the first post about the body scanner, the reason I ask the individual to remove any items out of their pockets including tissues is because it is an external scanner. Once you are scanned, it will show different orange zones on a generic stick figure that we need hand search. If I can get everything out of your pockets, there’s a decent chance the scanner will display an ‘ok’ message and you won’t need any hand search. Unfortunately the scanner is susceptible to body heat and sweat, resulting in the crotch area being highlighted.
Walking through the metal detector, it will detect metal but it will also alarm at random intervals and ratios. The individual that ‘randoms’ will have a body scan and their shoes swabbed.
As far as I’m concerned, asking someone to remove some tissue isn’t having a lack of humanity, it’s trying to help you get through with the minimal of fuss. Remember, I don’t want my hands round your sweaty crotch any more than you do!
Last week I had the pleasure of being under the eye of a CAA Inspector. All rules and procedures we follow come from the EASA with the CAA being the nominated regulatory authority. There is no grey areas when it comes to the CAA, liquid bags must seal, liquids, no matter how small must be out of the cabin bags, etc, etc, etc. Therefore, when someone asks for some understanding or leaway with regards to an oversize liquid or whatever, what they are expecting me to do is basically jeopardise my position, which I will not do. I won’t be pillock about it and I have no power to take anything off you, I will ask you to surrender it of check it in but that is as far as my ‘power’ goes. What I do have under my sleeve though is, if you don’t want to surrender the prohibited item, your travel goes no further. Again I won’t be an arse about it but I won’t tolerate any abuse from any passenger or crew and until these new X-ray machines arrive, it’s going to be like this.
Now, being regarded as uneducated is just plain insulting. I’m far from uneducated and take great pride in what I do. People seem to forget that my main aim, as I have said to many passengers, is to prevent their family turning on the TV one day and seeing their aeroplane spread across a field, be it being caused my bomb or whatever. That training and compliance is constantly ongoing and monitored. Yes we may be the last line of defence and I imagine intelligence plays a bigger part in stopping threats, but nevertheless, we are needed and I make sure I am always professional in whatever I am doing.
Anyway, I hope maybe that helps as to why some things are done.
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Recently at a U.K. airport we were flying through with our young child. His food and liquids were all in the correct bags and were all less than 100ml. They insisted in taking every single item out, x raying and residue checks on each.. touching them and putting them in dirty trays in the process (bear in mind he will be holding packets later, yum). When we pointed out they were all compliant and under 100ml we were made to feel like disruptive passengers. One item (still under 100ml) “failed” so she unfortunately had to go and find her supervisor to see if it as allowed through or not... disappearing for 10 minutes.
We are crew and know how the game works. Some workers are just up for a fight. Power trip?
We are crew and know how the game works. Some workers are just up for a fight. Power trip?
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Apparently the screening time is longer but bag searching is greatly reduced.
It’s a nightmare at the moment over here though because every KLM flight we get through, most of the passengers are getting their bag searched because they are leaving everything in.
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I have always found that the level of attention by security is most often driven by the Altitude / attitude of those being inspected. About the same level as customs and immigration. In 50 years +, i have never being subject to secondary check by either.
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Unfortunately the scanner is susceptible to body heat and sweat, resulting in the crotch area being highlighted.
Even in Lisbon airport they have those 3D-scanners now. Why not in the rest of Europe? Easy: cost-saving and the security-industry is a multi-billion Euro/Dollar/Pound business that will not allow those rules to be changed. It's embarrassing that we still need to take out our liquids and that there limitations of liquids at all, it's almost 2020, the technology to identify harmful substances does exist!
Will_161 well, if you really believe that you are the "last line of defence" and that the security procedures that you and all the security-people in airports follow are useful, then they have managed to indoctrinate you very well. Your job is - please don't take it personal - a complete waste of time. The bad guys will get the bad stuff in through others channels, namely catering and other landside based means and if they really wanted to, they would have succeeded. Well, they have, do you remember the Russian Airbus out of Sharm El-Sheik? That was not the act of a passenger. And the same is possible, for example in Heathrow (or any other airport): it is not feasible to search catering-trucks and in 99% of cases the catering is produced outside the CP or even the perimeter of an airport. To enter, the driver has to show a piece of paper, his licence/pass and probably go through sreening and some dedicated security-officer thoroughly searches the outside of the truck with a high-tech mirror, before having a quick look in the cabin of that vehicle. What about the 50 catering trolleys???
Security is there because of good lobbying by people who run the show and make lots and lots of money with this nonsense-circus. The security procedures that we had in place pre-9/11 were good enough: trust the crews, don't treat them like potential criminals/terrorists, they usually keep their eyes open for strange people. After being treated like a dick by some power-hungry school-aborter, one surely does not give a damn. On top of it there are some laughable screening procedures, especially in the UK! I do fly a business jet (commercial rules). The idiocy that us crew, our passengers and FBOs have to put up with is un-be-f**king-liev-able!!
What p*ss*s me off the most is the complete lack of trust that is put into already background-checked people like us. It used to be different and I do not remember any terrorist acts committed or facilitated by crew members. Luckily there are still countries where security staff is using their common sense and make our lives easier, because they know exactly how inefficient and stupid the procedures are that have been put in place.
Will_161 well, if you really believe that you are the "last line of defence" and that the security procedures that you and all the security-people in airports follow are useful, then they have managed to indoctrinate you very well. Your job is - please don't take it personal - a complete waste of time. The bad guys will get the bad stuff in through others channels, namely catering and other landside based means and if they really wanted to, they would have succeeded. Well, they have, do you remember the Russian Airbus out of Sharm El-Sheik? That was not the act of a passenger. And the same is possible, for example in Heathrow (or any other airport): it is not feasible to search catering-trucks and in 99% of cases the catering is produced outside the CP or even the perimeter of an airport. To enter, the driver has to show a piece of paper, his licence/pass and probably go through sreening and some dedicated security-officer thoroughly searches the outside of the truck with a high-tech mirror, before having a quick look in the cabin of that vehicle. What about the 50 catering trolleys???
Security is there because of good lobbying by people who run the show and make lots and lots of money with this nonsense-circus. The security procedures that we had in place pre-9/11 were good enough: trust the crews, don't treat them like potential criminals/terrorists, they usually keep their eyes open for strange people. After being treated like a dick by some power-hungry school-aborter, one surely does not give a damn. On top of it there are some laughable screening procedures, especially in the UK! I do fly a business jet (commercial rules). The idiocy that us crew, our passengers and FBOs have to put up with is un-be-f**king-liev-able!!
What p*ss*s me off the most is the complete lack of trust that is put into already background-checked people like us. It used to be different and I do not remember any terrorist acts committed or facilitated by crew members. Luckily there are still countries where security staff is using their common sense and make our lives easier, because they know exactly how inefficient and stupid the procedures are that have been put in place.
EatMyShorts you actually support the idea that Will and others are doing a good job by stating that crims and n'er do wells have to look for other ways to get their contraband airside. If security wasn't present at all access points to airside it would be even easier for the nasties to get their goods airside.
I made the mistake on one ocassion when travelling on a business trip, but going to a charter destination in USA, albeit on a scheduled flight. of wearing a suit. This meant I didn't fit the profile of passenger for the flight at all and was pulled over for security check at 3 points before leaving UK, and also on arrival in USA where we could mix with unscreened domestic arrivals at one point. Next time I shall wear flip flops and a kiss me quick hat!
I made the mistake on one ocassion when travelling on a business trip, but going to a charter destination in USA, albeit on a scheduled flight. of wearing a suit. This meant I didn't fit the profile of passenger for the flight at all and was pulled over for security check at 3 points before leaving UK, and also on arrival in USA where we could mix with unscreened domestic arrivals at one point. Next time I shall wear flip flops and a kiss me quick hat!
As aircrew we are probably more exposed to this than the average punter. Hence why we have more stories than your average punter. Most security screening staff are friendly enough and just doing a job. Most flight crew are friendly enough and know the game. But we all know characters on both sides of the discussion that are complete idiots. From the “I have a crash axe on the flight deck” and “i don’t need a yoghurt to crash a plane” to “I’m in charge here until the inspection is complete”.
The security measures have forced those intent of doing harm to an aircraft to search for other avenues.
3 anecdotes that still make me chuckle from when I used to work on the ground.
1) I had a half litre bottle of water confiscated at the security checkpoint as I was driving a vehicle from landslide to airside. They didn’t get the irony of me saying that I had about 40 litres of flammable petrol in the car’s tank and did they want to confiscate that too (it was a night shift and I was grumpy).
2) A security guard coming from landside to airside said “oh I’m sorry I have a can of redbull, you’ll have to confiscate that” chortle chortle as soon as they were airside they took the confiscated can of redbull and opened it up in front of everyone else and started drinking it. I reported that because I was annoyed at their blatant p*sstake
3) a fully armed police officer walking through a scanner setting off everything. Security said “I’m going to have to search you, where am I allowed to search you?”
I could give some anecdotes from flight crew colleagues but I won’t because I still have to work with them.
The security measures have forced those intent of doing harm to an aircraft to search for other avenues.
3 anecdotes that still make me chuckle from when I used to work on the ground.
1) I had a half litre bottle of water confiscated at the security checkpoint as I was driving a vehicle from landslide to airside. They didn’t get the irony of me saying that I had about 40 litres of flammable petrol in the car’s tank and did they want to confiscate that too (it was a night shift and I was grumpy).
2) A security guard coming from landside to airside said “oh I’m sorry I have a can of redbull, you’ll have to confiscate that” chortle chortle as soon as they were airside they took the confiscated can of redbull and opened it up in front of everyone else and started drinking it. I reported that because I was annoyed at their blatant p*sstake
3) a fully armed police officer walking through a scanner setting off everything. Security said “I’m going to have to search you, where am I allowed to search you?”
I could give some anecdotes from flight crew colleagues but I won’t because I still have to work with them.
I do think the security at UK airports is over the top. There's absolutely no room for common sense.
There are many other parts of the world where some airport staff and aircrew can still bring a pot of yoghurt or a bottle of water airside.
There's various stories that I've heard over the years such as engineers unable to bring milk or yoghurt though security as liquids, however they're perfectly OK if they're brought through frozen. Another (at LHR I think) was of an engineer trying to take his frozen ready meal though security, it was a hot day so said meal had begun to defrost, he had to open the (sealed) packet and drain off the liquid before being able to take the remaining frozen bit airside.
Whilst I'm sure there's some reasoning behind this, (I would guess that explosive liquids don't freeze), Engineers and Crew have plenty of other ways to bring down an aircraft if they so wish, we certainly don't need to resort to exploding yoghurt !
There are many other parts of the world where some airport staff and aircrew can still bring a pot of yoghurt or a bottle of water airside.
There's various stories that I've heard over the years such as engineers unable to bring milk or yoghurt though security as liquids, however they're perfectly OK if they're brought through frozen. Another (at LHR I think) was of an engineer trying to take his frozen ready meal though security, it was a hot day so said meal had begun to defrost, he had to open the (sealed) packet and drain off the liquid before being able to take the remaining frozen bit airside.
Whilst I'm sure there's some reasoning behind this, (I would guess that explosive liquids don't freeze), Engineers and Crew have plenty of other ways to bring down an aircraft if they so wish, we certainly don't need to resort to exploding yoghurt !