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Thomas Cook Gone

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Thomas Cook Gone

Old 26th Sep 2019, 07:23
  #121 (permalink)  
 
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It's like the landlord impounding my car on lease from Avis due not paying rent?! Sounds ridiculous, but that is exactly what happened to an ex-WOW A321 in KEF.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 07:24
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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Do leasing companies insure for this sort of event?
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 08:05
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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Rumours going around that €60m was transferred from Thomas Cook PLC to Condor days before the collapse. Does anybody have any more information?
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 08:17
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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Yes I believe so, I was given the figure 68 million. And former boss Christoph Debus slipped into a newly invented post at Condor on the final day adding an extra level of management. So all the airlines which until Monday belonged to Thomas Cook, are still flying, crews fully paid :sole exemption TC UK
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 10:36
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne
Yes I believe so, I was given the figure 68 million. And former boss Christoph Debus slipped into a newly invented post at Condor on the final day adding an extra level of management. So all the airlines which until Monday belonged to Thomas Cook, are still flying, crews fully paid :sole exemption TC UK
I feel for the crews in the UK, on the other hand, it's good if you can find a constellation where more healthy parts of the company can keep running, and not end up breaking everything down. For the sake of people still working.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 10:40
  #126 (permalink)  

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Profits from late 2018 onwards from the German and ~Scandinavian affiliates were never repatriated to TCG. Their books were kept artificially positive as part of the plan to hive off these "companies" on the open market. They ended up cash-rich. No such luck for Thomas Cook UK, although their senior management took very good care of themselves. By coincidence they are German and Swiss-German people, who still find themselves in highly-paid employment in Germany.

The clever liquidators have dismissed the aircraft engineers, thereby preventing routine time-dependent maintenance and upkeep on the aircraft now impounded. They will not be legal to be flown back to the leasing companies, thereby further inflating the debt due to parking charges and ultimately heavy maintenance. Debus and co didn't bother to look after this detail, nor after the well-being of the dismissed employees.

The leasing companies want their aircraft returned to them in the condition in which they were supplied to TCX UK. This apparently will require something of the order of 40 engine changes. Unbelievable.

And as for Condor, they are opening up new routes from the UK to former TCX UK destinations. Tickets are already on public sale. Problems may be anticipated as they attempt to operate said flights out of the UK.

Brexit has nothing whatever to do with this shambles. Blame avaricious management, some of whom may ultimately face criminal charges in the UK courts. In fact, if one looks at how disgracefully the German and Scandinavians have acted, one could argue that this is an example of why the UK is better out of Europe. (not my personal view, btw)
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 11:48
  #127 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Pearly White
I don't think that's the case at all. Not up with UK Administration Law but here in the colonies that would not be an option - and in any case it seems dubious the administrator would agree to continue trading. It's on them, and their insurers, to underwrite any further losses, which seem very likely, so, no, sorry.
Possibly not repatriation, if that constitutes trading, but I have actually been involved in the return and repositioning of aircraft, though not as crew, and all costs, including insurance were down to the administrators, who where, for the very short period involved, the employers.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 11:58
  #128 (permalink)  
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The leasing companies want their aircraft returned to them in the condition in which they were supplied to TCX UK. This apparently will require something of the order of 40 engine changes. Unbelievable.


In my past life as a pilot, I have been through returning aircraft back to a leasing company. And the paper trail is huge. And the above poster is correct .. they MUST be returned as they were delivered.. and as I said.. the paper work must confirm it all.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 13:56
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SOPS
The leasing companies want their aircraft returned to them in the condition in which they were supplied to TCX UK. This apparently will require something of the order of 40 engine changes. Unbelievable.

In my past life as a pilot, I have been through returning aircraft back to a leasing company. And the paper trail is huge. And the above poster is correct .. they MUST be returned as they were delivered.. and as I said.. the paper work must confirm it all.
Aren't the engines usually leased separately from the airframe?
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 14:33
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by procede
Aren't the engines usually leased separately from the airframe?
Have seen plenty of airframe lease contracts complete with engines, and also ones without. In any case, return conditions are carefully specified and usually must be as or better than delivery condition. With on-condition engines that can be a tricky affair.

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Old 26th Sep 2019, 15:28
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SOPS
The leasing companies want their aircraft returned to them in the condition in which they were supplied to TCX UK. This apparently will require something of the order of 40 engine changes. Unbelievable.


In my past life as a pilot, I have been through returning aircraft back to a leasing company. And the paper trail is huge. And the above poster is correct .. they MUST be returned as they were delivered.. and as I said.. the paper work must confirm it all.
The on wing engines will be in a condition that (subject to ongoing maintenance) will allow them to continue in service. The Lease Return Conditions that "Require 40 Engine Changes" are purely to meet Lease Return Conditions (LLP Stack Remaining Life, and Workshop TBO)
The aircraft are being re-possessed by Lessors, and any claims they may have will be subject to the usual process of Administration and they will receive practically nothing.
However the Lessors will have amassed Maintenance Reserves (Normal Ongoing Lease Contract contributions to future Maintenance costs at lease termination) so they will not be overly exposed financially

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Old 26th Sep 2019, 16:05
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RoyHudd
And as for Condor, they are opening up new routes from the UK to former TCX UK destinations. Tickets are already on public sale. Problems may be anticipated as they attempt to operate said flights out of the UK.
What routes, and where are these bookable?
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 18:32
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Astir 511
The on wing engines will be in a condition that (subject to ongoing maintenance) will allow them to continue in service. The Lease Return Conditions that "Require 40 Engine Changes" are purely to meet Lease Return Conditions (LLP Stack Remaining Life, and Workshop TBO)
The aircraft are being re-possessed by Lessors, and any claims they may have will be subject to the usual process of Administration and they will receive practically nothing.
However the Lessors will have amassed Maintenance Reserves (Normal Ongoing Lease Contract contributions to future Maintenance costs at lease termination) so they will not be overly exposed financially
Which in laymans terms means they have an inbuilt insurance to this risk?
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 18:56
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Astir 511
However the Lessors will have amassed Maintenance Reserves (Normal Ongoing Lease Contract contributions to future Maintenance costs at lease termination) so they will not be overly exposed financially
Not in Thomas Cook case - they did not paid cash reserves, so Lessors are heavily exposed on engines.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 19:20
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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I'm very surprised the administrator's of TCG cannot take legal action to recoup the unpaid debt from those subsidiaries which are still trading.
They are duty bound to obtain as much as possible for creditors. While Limited company status can attempt to ring fence exposure to claims, TCG was the parent company. Something very underhand if siphoning off money from one company into another is allowed only for 3 companies to continue trading while the debt is left with the collapsed company.

There would appear to be sufficient evidence of malpractice by the current and previous director's to warrant criminal proceedings.
And even investigation of the auditor since there must come a point at which the level of debt becomes unsustainable and a risk to the travelling consumer.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 21:17
  #136 (permalink)  
 
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Some of the 40 required engine changes will be to reunite the correct engine serial numbers with the correct airframe serial number.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 21:33
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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Hate to see all those jobs lost.
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 05:19
  #138 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RoyHudd
In fact, if one looks at how disgracefully the German and Scandinavians have acted, one could argue that this is an example of why the UK is better out of Europe. (not my personal view, btw)
Care to elaborate on how they've acted "disgracefully". By keeping operating and paying staff their wages?
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 07:04
  #139 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by anotherthing
Jet2 are trying to cash in. Tried to book flights back from Lanzarote for next Jan as we were booked with TCX. Got all the details in and told price was circa £4700 (8 people). Went to the pay now page and they stated price had risen to £7600 due to demand. I can see many people will panic and just pay it. Fortunately TUI offered much fairer price
Jet 2 are not only operator being accused of 'cashing in' with silly prices. Probably a relatively short term issue where there's a rush of bookings far higher than normal movement at this time of year and the algorithm responds by upping the price.

Would be interesting to see what J2 would have quoted if you'd left it for a day or two.
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 07:06
  #140 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SMT Member
Care to elaborate on how they've acted "disgracefully". By keeping operating and paying staff their wages?
Perhaps it is worth re-reading the post you quote from and considering how many and which elements of the company kept operating and how they became cash healthy.
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