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Easyjet FO anxiety attack

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Easyjet FO anxiety attack

Old 19th Sep 2019, 13:42
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Exactly what’s been said in previous posts! Panic attacks can happen for no reason! So give the person a break!
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Old 19th Sep 2019, 13:50
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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If this took place on a line check: a pilot is unable to perform a go around, and subsequently removes him or herself from the cockpit for the duration of the flight, should he or she pass the line check?
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Old 19th Sep 2019, 14:33
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CaptainMongo View Post
If this took place on a line check: a pilot is unable to perform a go around, and subsequently removes him or herself from the cockpit for the duration of the flight, should he or she pass the line check?
Why would you ask a question when you already know the answer? And since it didn't happen, the question is hypothetical, of what relevance is it?

Or are you just stirring the pot for no other reason than mischief making?
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Old 19th Sep 2019, 14:43
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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Finally he is paid and needed to do a job and be available in the cockpit.
While everybody can have a bad day and perform sub par at times, and that's okay with me, some constant medical condition is not acceptable. He can possibly be treated and return to full capabilities. But I'm against hidden issues that can suddenly affect everybody else at any time. If unfit to fly or unwell do not report for duty please.
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Old 20th Sep 2019, 10:43
  #85 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
 
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BBC on line HEALTH ~ Sertraline

New research published BBC on line today for those interested in mental health issues
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Old 20th Sep 2019, 11:01
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by A320baby View Post
Exactly what’s been said in previous posts! Panic attacks can happen for no reason! So give the person a break!
​​​​​​​Just for the sake of enhancing our knowledge, it is not true that panic attacks happen for no reason. They can well happen for no apparent reason but statistically speaking people that have been subject to anxiety/panic/depression disorders have found one or more potential root causes, which in the end is quite logical. There have been also multiple cases over the years of people experiencing those issues due to pure organic reasons, such as hormonal imbalance necessitating treatment. So there is basically always something going on behind the scenes in those cases and the most important point is to accurately target the issues and find a proper solution. By the way I am not a psychologist at all, just attended a course in order to be able to deliver a CAA functional sim check to anyone experiencing a medical suspension due to those and other reasons.
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Old 20th Sep 2019, 21:46
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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Ignoring the facts help nobody. Airline training standards need to improve. Pilots must be able to land in the event of an emergency on day 1 alone in the event of an incapacitation. The fare paying public and respect for professional safety standards do require that dependable professions don't throw the towel in on final and walk off the job. That's just not how it works. Imagine an unconfined engine fire, cabin fire or captain incapacitation, pilots need to be made of the right metal to fight on through regardless to a safe ending. Experience, training, consistency, professionalism are not things that should be lacking on a flight deck. We have too many inexperienced low standards getting released to the RHS of passenger airliners. At minimum, during benign conditions inside the basics of the aircraft limits a pilot must be safe to operate largely unassisted on line. Pilots should be assisted, supported, retrained wherever possible, but chances should not be taken with severe cases especially where a pilot walks out the flight deck at a critical time rather than just handing over control. Lets hope the authorities have supported the individual and provided all necessary assistance and training.
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Old 21st Sep 2019, 00:59
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pilotchute View Post
Panic attacks can happen for no apparent reason to people with no history of anxiety or metal illness. Young and old.

Unless he has panic disorder and didn't disclose it, leave the poor person alone. The last thing he needs is to log onto Prune and see people judging him.
​​​​
Pretty sure I didn't say no reason. Just no reason may be apparent at the time.
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Old 21st Sep 2019, 08:01
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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After the Germanwings suicide the CAA are very cautious about mental health issues so the fact that he’s been cleared again to fly means he must have passed a rigorous procedure to get his medical back, so I think we can rest assured he is safe to fly. Also I believe that when people hide these type of conditions they can be worse - the anxiety of thinking what the consequences of having an anxiety attack and what people will think must add considerably to it. Once out in the open and having received treatment I’m sure he has strategies for dealing with those kind of feelings. And perhaps greater awareness of not flying when unfit from lack of sleep or fatigue - an ever present issue with low cost flying.

I’m very pleased that this guy has received treatment and is back on the line. It will encourage others with mental health issues to seek help rather than bottle it up and hope no one notices.

What effect would grounding anyone who has a mental health issue have on the number of people seeking help do you think? Very much the same as disciplining people who make mistakes instead of retraining them has on an open safety reporting culture.
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Old 21st Sep 2019, 09:32
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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It is my observation after a few years in the game that so called open/just cultures in aviation are a spent force .

the culture is open and just until the reporter threatens to reveal the emperor has no clothes then the messenger is very quickly put back in their place.

the airlines CAA,FAA, NTSB & AAIB are all very keen to support the Just Culture myth and will brutally protect their bonuses / sinecures.

Ask Sully how justly he was treated, there are plenty others out there who dare not speak.
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Old 21st Sep 2019, 18:20
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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Agree completely

Originally Posted by Nil further View Post
It is my observation after a few years in the game that so called open/just cultures in aviation are a spent force .

the culture is open and just until the reporter threatens to reveal the emperor has no clothes then the messenger is very quickly put back in their place.

the airlines CAA,FAA, NTSB & AAIB are all very keen to support the Just Culture myth and will brutally protect their bonuses / sinecures.

Ask Sully how justly he was treated, there are plenty others out there who dare not speak.
It is in many ways a way for the industry to look good.
but there is not much substance to it.
Anyway I believe that the person who freaked out needs to find a new job. Clearly he does not perform well under pressure, and as FC I would not be too happy working with people like that
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Old 21st Sep 2019, 21:38
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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Kind words, but would you really be happy for your family to fly with this First Officer on the flight deck? I certainly would not. How do you, (or the CAA) know that there will no further issues, particularly during any emergency situations? Answer - you don't.
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Old 21st Sep 2019, 22:31
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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You better start taking the bus Kinell. Pilots with depression/anxiety conditions have been flying around for 15 plus years now. They are scrutinized closely and jump through many more hoops than normal to keep a class 1 .

Find something else to be concerned about.
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Old 22nd Sep 2019, 10:10
  #94 (permalink)  
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A few years after entering the airlines, I had a particularly hairy event with weather that for all intents and purposes should have caused an accident. But for the grace of god, it did not. There wasn’t much we could have done, it was simply “one of those things”. It “shook” me up for a little while, and I admit to feel a level of discomfort when in similar weather conditions for a while afterward.

I spoke to a few older and wiser pilots about it, also consulted my company. It never bordered on an effect on my ability to perform, but it bothered me.

To cut a long long story short, I ended up booking on to an upset recovery course, refresh things I did in basic training. I haven’t experienced any of the issues since that course. Anyone reading this feeling a bit uneasy, find someone you trust, go spin, loop, roll etc. Etc. Explore your ability and the envelope, absolute game changer.
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Old 22nd Sep 2019, 10:16
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Less Hair View Post
All the other medical limits for pilots are super strict like eyesight and such. Many good pilots are blocked from a career because of very minor imperfections. However mental health issues suddenly get that extra bonus for softer limits. Why is that?
Because mental health problems can be hidden much more easily than physical impairments. If you act "tough" against mental health issues, people will hide them rather than seeking treatment which is much more likely to have a bad outcome.

Originally Posted by parkfell View Post
Reverserbucket post at 1650 yesterday concerning Matthew Guest v. Flybe Limited at an employment tribunal for unfair dismissal describes in detail the emotional issues which can occur. Definitely worth a read for those interested in mental health flying issues. Allow yourself two hours.
​​​​​​I read through all that and found it very worthwhile. A very difficult situation for all involved, though I guess all issues relating to mental health and aviation are.

Originally Posted by Uplinker View Post
However, if a pilot with nearly 700 hours does not feel they can control and arrest a sideways drift close to minima, and/or has to go around - and this situation scares them - well, are they really in the right profession?
My impression was that he wasn't fearful of the go-around but rather the aftermath (cockpit gradient). Performance Pressure being higher than normal because the skipper had needed to take control from him the day before.


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Old 22nd Sep 2019, 12:04
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BewareOfTheSharklets View Post
(...)
My impression was that he wasn't fearful of the go-around but rather the aftermath (cockpit gradient). Performance Pressure being higher than normal because the skipper had needed to take control from him the day before.
If the captain took control from him the day before and the control takeover was for good reason, then I do not think that cockpit gradient would play a role here. Pressure to do it right yes, but unless I have missed it, there has been no information about the captain’s personality contributing to a particularly high stress environment.
IMHO he got so hooked up with getting it right this time that he was finally overwhelmed, regardless of the guy sitting next to him.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 07:16
  #97 (permalink)  
LEM
 
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License directly to the garbage bin.

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Old 26th Sep 2019, 10:47
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LEM View Post
License directly to the garbage bin.


While I understand where you are coming from, I sincerely doubt that this will be beneficial for airline safety. Quite the contrary, I think this will scare a lot of pilots with mental issues from coming forward or seeking help.
As far as I can see EasyJet made the right call here, by offering help to overcome his anxiety and reinstate him.

Last edited by ReturningVector; 26th Sep 2019 at 10:48. Reason: grammar
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 13:39
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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Ask Sully how justly he was treated
I would but can't afford his fee Was told that in preparation for the Congressional hearing following the Colgan crash, wanted to charge another witness for a discussion beforehand to share background information. I understand she declined. Jeff Skiles is a really nice guy though.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 15:22
  #100 (permalink)  
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The bit that concerns me most is that, if reported correctly, this young FO got up and left the flight deck during a critical stage of flight. Throughout his initial training and continuation training he will have become imbued by the fact that he is a vital part of a two man crew and most needed during the critical stages of flight, i.e. TO and landing. To have cast this aside and decided his personal problems overcame all else is a worry.

One aspect this FO may have to consider is, his actions having become public and the subject of inquiry, whether or not his loss of licence insurers need to be told. Non disclosure of essential information is grounds for underwriters to refuse to pay up, they may consider this to be essential information that the FO is duty bound to disclose. Any underwriters out there like to comment?
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