Hard times for Norwegian
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Very valid point. As we know, markets are driven as much by confidence as much as hardcore business results. There seems a group of posters that seem to cynically enjoy ‘talking down’ various airlines. It’s almost as though they are rubbing their hands in glee in anticipation at the potential demise of the next one. There have been some quite unpleasant comments on here about the ‘stupidity’ of crew that have chosen to work for Norwegian. If only there were so many jobs available we all had the choice to be really picky about employment offers - but there isn’t. My family member is potentially about to lose his job with NAS. He has been treated well there, he got his first break there, been part of a great team, made good friends, always got his first base choice and is as sad at losing the camaraderie as much as being made redundant. Sure, there have been negativities. HR has always been a bit chaotic but nowhere is perfect and if that’s the only main complaint, it’s doing pretty well.
Jacob Schram seemed to be doing a pretty good job of turning Norwegian around and although it was always going to be a slow process, was making headway into rationalising long term costs, then along came Covid. I would say on a positive note that the Norwegian government do seem to be doing their best to try and make things as accommodating as they can for NAS which indicates ideally they would like to see its continued existence.
Jacob Schram seemed to be doing a pretty good job of turning Norwegian around and although it was always going to be a slow process, was making headway into rationalising long term costs, then along came Covid. I would say on a positive note that the Norwegian government do seem to be doing their best to try and make things as accommodating as they can for NAS which indicates ideally they would like to see its continued existence.
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This is a thread about hard times for Norwegian. What do you expect people to talk about? The price of coffee?
That you don’t like the negative outlook for the company doesn’t mean we can’t talk about it.
The other side is pretty good at making positive comments that are so rosy it is hard to imagine they come from anyone but the PR part of Norwegian. Uncle says things that come from the very top of the company, even before the CEO has said them in public. Should we moderate him? No, it is a free society with free speach. To moderate the parts we don’t like is what they do in North Korea, not here.
That you don’t like the negative outlook for the company doesn’t mean we can’t talk about it.
The other side is pretty good at making positive comments that are so rosy it is hard to imagine they come from anyone but the PR part of Norwegian. Uncle says things that come from the very top of the company, even before the CEO has said them in public. Should we moderate him? No, it is a free society with free speach. To moderate the parts we don’t like is what they do in North Korea, not here.
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There is a difference between discussing the financial situation of an airline and constantly slagging off its employees and their choices.
And incidentally PPRUne isn’t free speech - Why do people think they can say what they like ?, this isn’t the United Nations , it’s a private domain which seems increasingly monetarised.
And incidentally PPRUne isn’t free speech - Why do people think they can say what they like ?, this isn’t the United Nations , it’s a private domain which seems increasingly monetarised.
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The US export/import bank is a major source of financing of Norwegians aircraft and they expect to get paid in full. They have a big part of the 22 billion NOK aircraft debt. That will be a problem for the loan for shares deal Norwegian is trying to pull off.
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There has definately been a bit of both. However, I think some people (myself included) just have to speak up when we see so much uneducated bs, and just outright wrong information being thrown out there with no other explanation than; "I feel", "I think" or "I have heard".... I'm not sure who you work for "ManaAdaSystem" but I bet you have a few of those moments as well regarding your own company, or someone you have worked for/with from time to time...
As mentioned so many times before, we are living in unprecedented times. Almost all the big players are down on their knees and it is time to show solidarity towards our fellow pilots. At the moment the situation is so fluid that none of us know if we will end up with the company we used to "look down on" or maybe with nothing at all! I think a little bit of "Karma-awareness" would be in it's place for certain people right now.
Many of our thousand of colleagues are in a "holding pattern" in this very moment. -All searching for the slightest bit of hope or at least a glimmer of good news wherever possible. Also here on pprune! If we are to give them an educational warning, a heads-up or just some good old usable words of advice that actually applies to the real world, we need to apply some good manners and at least some information rooted in facts!
It will be VERY interesting to follow how the good/bad news is communicated on the 4th of May. We will see all the "I told you so's" or "they don't deserve to survive" trolls get out of the closet in no time. I think a moderator should be on "airport standby" for that one...
Stay safe and may you all be back in the air soon.
As mentioned so many times before, we are living in unprecedented times. Almost all the big players are down on their knees and it is time to show solidarity towards our fellow pilots. At the moment the situation is so fluid that none of us know if we will end up with the company we used to "look down on" or maybe with nothing at all! I think a little bit of "Karma-awareness" would be in it's place for certain people right now.
Many of our thousand of colleagues are in a "holding pattern" in this very moment. -All searching for the slightest bit of hope or at least a glimmer of good news wherever possible. Also here on pprune! If we are to give them an educational warning, a heads-up or just some good old usable words of advice that actually applies to the real world, we need to apply some good manners and at least some information rooted in facts!
It will be VERY interesting to follow how the good/bad news is communicated on the 4th of May. We will see all the "I told you so's" or "they don't deserve to survive" trolls get out of the closet in no time. I think a moderator should be on "airport standby" for that one...
Stay safe and may you all be back in the air soon.
Last edited by SSDK; 26th Apr 2020 at 21:14.
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FT says just 7 a/c keep flying through April 2021, in Scandinavia ... assuming the D4E swap goes through. https://www.ft.com/content/0b04ed8b-...8-f6068b995627
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https://www.norwegian.com/globalasse...april-2020.pdf
The presentation to bondholders is above.
The survival strategy seems to be 'screw everyone'
Page 17 =
"Other payments halted, including (but not limited to) ground handling, payments to OEMs, hedges, debt and lease payments"
" Filed for bankruptcy for Norwegian's pilot and cabin crew companies in Sweden and Denmark to further reduce costs Cancelled crew agreements with a number of jointly-owned OSM Aviation subsidiaries, all together affecting 1,571 pilots and 3,134 cabin crew Only 200 employees remain in operations"
The presentation to bondholders is above.
The survival strategy seems to be 'screw everyone'
Page 17 =
"Other payments halted, including (but not limited to) ground handling, payments to OEMs, hedges, debt and lease payments"
" Filed for bankruptcy for Norwegian's pilot and cabin crew companies in Sweden and Denmark to further reduce costs Cancelled crew agreements with a number of jointly-owned OSM Aviation subsidiaries, all together affecting 1,571 pilots and 3,134 cabin crew Only 200 employees remain in operations"
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Pretty much what was expected, asking the lease companies to write off the debts and convert arrears to shares, reduce the cost of leases, and ground all European SH and LH ops, just keeping the flag flying in Norway.. interesting proposal along the lines of "we've got you over a barrel" some practical suggestions too, but rely heavily of creditor good will and faith in the future outlook, and right now no one has any faith in aviation recovery as a whole. It's certainly crunch time for the leasing companies whom now run the risk of massively reduced payments and minimal maintenance meaning their assets may not be readily transferable if other customers are found. Bad news for the crews with little chance of gainful employment outside of Norway. For the sake of a few domestic routes and 7 aircraft its probably better to let the whole thing fold and re-start on a proper footing as the "plan" also suggests that "more fund may be needed" and the appetite for investment will be non existent given the "kill my granny and change my name policy". Good luck to those effected.
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Doesn’t look great does it ? Even if LH starts again, ( in a year plus ) it’ll be fewer routes and more “ flexible “ crew ( which I read as seasonal contracts ).
Better apply all over the world then ...
Better apply all over the world then ...
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I think the presentation is fairly conservative considering the current turmoil as it assumes operations to start for next summer season (April 2021) rather than speculating with earlier starts which would have very low demand and even possible demanding restrictions (middle seat bans, tough airport regulations, etc...).
One important point is that, as expected, LH will remain an important part of norwegian, not only from a branding perspective, but also because becoming a nordic regional carrier as some have speculated, is simply not worth it with a project of this magnitude as Scandinavia doesn't have the market or the catchment area to justify such an investment.
Tough decision for the creditors and bondholders this coming Thursday, although after today´s presentation, I'm more confident that they will vote favourably and, along with State Aid, norwegian might be able to survive to become an important player next year with a reduced but fairly similar project as they had before Covid 19.
One important point is that, as expected, LH will remain an important part of norwegian, not only from a branding perspective, but also because becoming a nordic regional carrier as some have speculated, is simply not worth it with a project of this magnitude as Scandinavia doesn't have the market or the catchment area to justify such an investment.
Tough decision for the creditors and bondholders this coming Thursday, although after today´s presentation, I'm more confident that they will vote favourably and, along with State Aid, norwegian might be able to survive to become an important player next year with a reduced but fairly similar project as they had before Covid 19.
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As expected, the New Norwegian plans to keep the bases in northern Europe (OSL, SVG, BGO, TRD, ARN, CPH, HEL,..) and LGW. Reducing the fleet from 168 to 110-120 means a lot of base closures. NAI alone has 33 aircraft...
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But so far you predicted that LH would disappear and it appears that it will remain as part of the operation, and not become a regional Nordic player.
I frankly don't think we will see any base announcements on May 5th or anytime soon, as it will all depend on business trends, country restrictions and profit margins rather than one's own wishes to have their base of choice remain open.
In any case, remember that if norwegian is lucky enough to still be alive on May 5th, and we all hope they do, it will pretty much be owned by their creditors and bondholders which are mainly American and Irish with almost no Scandinavian participation any longer other than the name on the side of the airplane.
And rest assured that they will open or close bases based in revenue and profit margins rather than national sentiment.
