Hard times for Norwegian
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"Advent"
Some of the crews was not given a choice when it initially happen. It was take it or goodbye.
From 2015, when this happen:
"Half of Norwegian's pilots want to quit" and "75% of the 800 pilots surveyed would not recommend Norwegian as an employer"
https://e24.no/karriere-og-ledelse/i...sker-aa-slutte
Some of the crews was not given a choice when it initially happen. It was take it or goodbye.
From 2015, when this happen:
"Half of Norwegian's pilots want to quit" and "75% of the 800 pilots surveyed would not recommend Norwegian as an employer"
https://e24.no/karriere-og-ledelse/i...sker-aa-slutte
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https://www.norwegian.com/en/booking/package-deals/ guess they have a different view on a package then! The CAA WILL require financial viability as this was a hurdle they experienced in the past, fingers crossed they get some investment. Regarding the aircraft, NAS are behind on lease payments and need to catch up on these and probably pay a few months in advance to get in the air again. This being the case, the cash required is far beyond the dribble proposed. If OSM are accepted to the job furlough scheme it will at least give some income to the crews, but three months hence, they will all need recurrent training, the leases will be 5 months in arrears and the rest is predicable, sadly. BA, Easy, Ryan, Virgin can stand a chance of getting through this with their cash reserves, NAS has no cash.
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Every company will need massive amount of recurrent training. Can you imagine crews being 3-4 months out of currency, I struggle to see how they will find enough Sims and trainers to be able to do this very quick.
So as for NAS regarding the crews, that won't be worse than any others, most likely it is easier to get government help now they got rid of all the non Core crews, than again who knows.
So as for NAS regarding the crews, that won't be worse than any others, most likely it is easier to get government help now they got rid of all the non Core crews, than again who knows.
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Every company will need massive amount of recurrent training. Can you imagine crews being 3-4 months out of currency, I struggle to see how they will find enough Sims and trainers to be able to do this very quick.
So as for NAS regarding the crews, that won't be worse than any others, most likely it is easier to get government help now they got rid of all the non Core crews, than again who knows.
So as for NAS regarding the crews, that won't be worse than any others, most likely it is easier to get government help now they got rid of all the non Core crews, than again who knows.
Today RYR received a huge sentence in Spain for the same reason. You can close bases and fire people, but you can't declare bankruptcy wherever you wish and keep flying in Norway like nothing happened because they will simply eat them in court.
Also, remember that firing staff gets rid of salary expenses, but the massive debt belongs to norwegian, no its subsidiaries. And no creditor or government is going to bail them out to keep a small operation in Norway simply because it's not worth it. It's actually much cheaper to let it go bust and start from zero without the liabilities.
All rumour aside, we will find out soon what the final outcome is on May 4th.
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At least the change of the law is a step in the right direction of Norwegian's survival. I am no fan of the company and still remain pessimistic but I sincerely hope for everyone involved they pull through. A huge amount of unemployed pilots is only good for managers when negotiating a new CWA.
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Technically they have not fired any staff in Spain or the UK. They have told OSM they no longer require their crew services. Therefore the pilots and cabin crew are still employed but via OSM.
So if any action was to take place against a company, it would be with the pilot and cabin crews employer, which is OSM UK or OSM Spain, not Norwegian.
I know OSM UK are doing everything they can for their employees.
As for Sweden and Denmark, I have no idea on employment law over there so cannot comment.
wish all the crews all the best and hope the 4th of May brings good news.
So if any action was to take place against a company, it would be with the pilot and cabin crews employer, which is OSM UK or OSM Spain, not Norwegian.
I know OSM UK are doing everything they can for their employees.
As for Sweden and Denmark, I have no idea on employment law over there so cannot comment.
wish all the crews all the best and hope the 4th of May brings good news.
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Actually we're not "OSM Spain" , we're NAR ES which is 51% owned by NAS and 49% by OSM so we're employed by Norwegian anyways not osm..they only manage the HR part etc
We're not fired. We're on ERTE for the moment like everyone else on all other companies. After the 4th we'll see...
Still find it interesting how most guys here commenting don't even work here...but they know it all 😬 Sofa Warriors I guess..
We're not fired. We're on ERTE for the moment like everyone else on all other companies. After the 4th we'll see...
Still find it interesting how most guys here commenting don't even work here...but they know it all 😬 Sofa Warriors I guess..
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So if any action was to take place against a company, it would be with the pilot and cabin crews employer, which is OSM UK or OSM Spain, not Norwegian.
“(The new law) is a more efficient tool to ... sort out what parts of a business can be strong enough to survive,” Justice Minster Monica Maeland told parliament.
In other words, dump the LH operation, cull the non-profit making SH routes, retrench and build a solid base. As the aviation world will scrabble for revenues you will probably find a "gentleman agreement" in place on routes with heavy competition to give everyone a chance to drink from the pool. Code-share-R-US
Last edited by Kirks gusset; 24th Apr 2020 at 20:00.
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One of Norwegians problem at the moment is that all the big and/or institutional investors have exited the share and they are left with all shareholders with just small stakes each. Normally that would leave the company management in control but there is building up a momentum among the shareholders organizing against being watered out to nothing and the company depends on a shareholder yes vote if the debt is to be converted to shares, in addition to the debt holders agreement.
The company is becoming uncontrollable. If a shareholder revolt is coming expect board changes to follow since the current board is sitting based on shareholders no longer invested in the company.
Some are also flouting that the state would take over the assets if the company did go bust, to keep up the competition in the Norway/Scandinavia market. Doubtfull. Its a long time since a european country started up an airline, which is what it in reality would be seen as.
The company is becoming uncontrollable. If a shareholder revolt is coming expect board changes to follow since the current board is sitting based on shareholders no longer invested in the company.
Some are also flouting that the state would take over the assets if the company did go bust, to keep up the competition in the Norway/Scandinavia market. Doubtfull. Its a long time since a european country started up an airline, which is what it in reality would be seen as.
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If small investors don’t (understandably) want their investment diluted, and vote against the debt to equity plan, they will maintain an undiluted share holding worth approximately zip of Norwegian fails. Personally, it feels like momentum is gathering towards acceptance of the plan, but we’ll just have to wait and see.
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Small inverstors have been buying a lot of shares lately. I doesn’t make sense. They know if this deal goes through the value will be next to nothing. If the company goes bust, the value will be nothing.
So now they demand the government to save them by injecting 10 billion NOK into the company.
It is a mess, that is sure.
So now they demand the government to save them by injecting 10 billion NOK into the company.
It is a mess, that is sure.
I Have Control
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I fail to understand why Norwegian should continue to trade. It has been a busted flush for years, when profits were there to be made. Their business plans never worked in the relatively good times. And now......
My sympathies to Norwegian employees and most of the management. It is a rotten deal for you. Better luck next time.
My sympathies to Norwegian employees and most of the management. It is a rotten deal for you. Better luck next time.
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Interesting article:
https://e24.no/naeringsliv/i/g7nVWJ/...vaar-situasjon
Specially the part where Karin S. Thorburn, professor at the Norwegian School of Economics (NHH) doubts that the new scheme could be of particular help to Norwegian. Among other things, she has bankruptcies and restructurings as her areas of expertise.
- Norwegian can to some extent get help with liquidity, but the problem is that in order to convert debt into equity, you need unanimity. Everyone has to agree, and they may as well be unanimous outside the reconstruction process.
She points to a possible problem.
- In addition, we have the problem of Norwegian having subsidiaries in Ireland and other countries. And they will not be subject to such a process. Only the Norwegian part will.
https://e24.no/naeringsliv/i/g7nVWJ/...vaar-situasjon
Specially the part where Karin S. Thorburn, professor at the Norwegian School of Economics (NHH) doubts that the new scheme could be of particular help to Norwegian. Among other things, she has bankruptcies and restructurings as her areas of expertise.
- Norwegian can to some extent get help with liquidity, but the problem is that in order to convert debt into equity, you need unanimity. Everyone has to agree, and they may as well be unanimous outside the reconstruction process.
She points to a possible problem.
- In addition, we have the problem of Norwegian having subsidiaries in Ireland and other countries. And they will not be subject to such a process. Only the Norwegian part will.
Last edited by Paul737; 26th Apr 2020 at 15:13.
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This thread does not have the feel of a chat in the bar over a plate of chicken wings, while complaining of the rotten American beer. As professional pilots we will have done a CRM course, and should understand the concepts of ‘motivated reasoning’ and ‘confirmation bias’. I get a strong impression that many of the posts being made here are not what they seem.
In the current world situation I would expect that competing airlines would be monitoring this thread and would probably throw the odd grenade into the mix in the hope of destabilising the situation, irrespective of the veracity of their assertions. I know this is not what PPRUNE was intended for, so whoever is moderating this thread, or the Virgin or Loganair threads, I urge you to remove these kinds of posts which could ultimately influence the livelihoods of a great many people.
In the current world situation I would expect that competing airlines would be monitoring this thread and would probably throw the odd grenade into the mix in the hope of destabilising the situation, irrespective of the veracity of their assertions. I know this is not what PPRUNE was intended for, so whoever is moderating this thread, or the Virgin or Loganair threads, I urge you to remove these kinds of posts which could ultimately influence the livelihoods of a great many people.
