Hard times for Norwegian
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I did use a text. But it was my understanding that this was a company perk - paid for by Norwegian. We were never counted as "additional crew" or "active" as RYR does it. IF this was/or is confirmed as tax-dodging I think we are talking numbers so low that it's not worth your time anyway. Show me the tax dodgning in pure numbers! Otherwise it's "he said, she said" imo. Again - cockpit gossip of the worst kind. Some times I think each and every pilot has a 13 year old "gossip-girl" hidden inside just waiting to come out.
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I did use a text. But it was my understanding that this was a company perk - paid for by Norwegian. We were never counted as "additional crew" or "active" as RYR does it. IF this was/or is confirmed as tax-dodging I think we are talking numbers so low that it's not worth your time anyway. Show me the tax dodgning in pure numbers! Otherwise it's "he said, she said" imo. Again - cockpit gossip of the worst kind. Some times I think each and every pilot has a 13 year old "gossip-girl" hidden inside just waiting to come out.
Same goes for the BKK crew who they’d ship in, in economy, and have them fly on the Europe-USA routes.
Just my humble opinion and again, I’ve got friends in Norwegian, they knew the score and I obviously have sympathy for them. It could be any of us tomorrow.
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I have never positioned in uniform on all of my time in Norwegian.. Nor was I required to!
No, you hit the nail on the head. "You bet" and you "guess". I find it interesting that we all just accept this as being the truth here on the forum. It delutes the worth of it, and it is quite frankly surprising that we as pilots are willing to go along with the slightest rumor or "good story" that easily.
Again. Let's hope we can all get through this... It affects us all.
No, you hit the nail on the head. "You bet" and you "guess". I find it interesting that we all just accept this as being the truth here on the forum. It delutes the worth of it, and it is quite frankly surprising that we as pilots are willing to go along with the slightest rumor or "good story" that easily.
Again. Let's hope we can all get through this... It affects us all.
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It's all good to have great T & C's, but if you have no job security, and the company can cut you off without any responsibility or liability just to get rid of debts and creditors, the contracts might seem great, but have very little legal value regarding workers rights etc.
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It's all good to have great T & C's, but if you have no job security, and the company can cut you off without any responsibility or liability just to get rid of debts and creditors, the contracts might seem great, but have very little legal value regarding workers rights etc.
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TBH, if you are earning that as an FO you are overpaid.
the job of LH capt day in day out, is about £120kworth I think - that’s my opinion though. There are some obscene payments for US legacy captains 300k dollars plus - that’s just ridiculous for what is generally a fairly straightforward routine job - I mean to be paid more than a surgeon / prime minister etc...
Theres always been those who play the long game for ( eventually) the big money - BA FOs who can wait a decade and a half for a sniff of a command. And then the rest - I prefer an earlier command as I find that part of the job the most interesting now and it’s the puzzle I like to try and solve everyday
But we digress - I’m not getting into contracts, pay, who’s got the biggest watch and the smallest....it’s irrelevant , what I’m interested in is NAS news and whether they make it or not . If you have a negative view , hold it to yourself for now , as they fight for survival - otherwise you’ll be a bit like the bully in the playground kicking the kid that’s already on the floor
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TBH, if you are earning that as an FO you are overpaid.
the job of LH capt day in day out, is about £120kworth I think - that’s my opinion though. There are some obscene payments for US legacy captains 300k dollars plus - that’s just ridiculous for what is generally a fairly straightforward routine job - I mean to be paid more than a surgeon / prime minister etc...
Theres always been those who play the long game for ( eventually) the big money - BA FOs who can wait a decade and a half for a sniff of a command. And then the rest - I prefer an earlier command as I find that part of the job the most interesting now and it’s the puzzle I like to try and solve everyday
But we digress - I’m not getting into contracts, pay, who’s got the biggest watch and the smallest....it’s irrelevant , what I’m interested in is NAS news and whether they make it or not . If you have a negative view , hold it to yourself for now , as they fight for survival - otherwise you’ll be a bit like the bully in the playground kicking the kid that’s already on the floor
the job of LH capt day in day out, is about £120kworth I think - that’s my opinion though. There are some obscene payments for US legacy captains 300k dollars plus - that’s just ridiculous for what is generally a fairly straightforward routine job - I mean to be paid more than a surgeon / prime minister etc...
Theres always been those who play the long game for ( eventually) the big money - BA FOs who can wait a decade and a half for a sniff of a command. And then the rest - I prefer an earlier command as I find that part of the job the most interesting now and it’s the puzzle I like to try and solve everyday
But we digress - I’m not getting into contracts, pay, who’s got the biggest watch and the smallest....it’s irrelevant , what I’m interested in is NAS news and whether they make it or not . If you have a negative view , hold it to yourself for now , as they fight for survival - otherwise you’ll be a bit like the bully in the playground kicking the kid that’s already on the floor
Please, just let it continue the downward spiral, it does not matter, you probably think like some other big bosses, that pilots are overpaid.
It's not only in the USA where they get paid $300.000, much of Asia Captains also on these kind of salaries, $250.000 - $300.000, while in the EU, well we all know, how it is here.
120.000 Euro for a Captain is pretty poor, compared to USA and Asia. I can get more in Asia flying Cargo as an FO.
Controversial, moi?
Apologies for the thread drift but to correct a piece of mis-information:
That used to be the case, in fact in the early to mid 90s I met FOs who had waited 20 years for command. I joined late 89 and got a SH command after 10 years and three years later a LH command. Now, or until this virus arrived, commands on some fleets can be had after just a few years.
BA FOs who can wait a decade and a half for a sniff of a command.
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Apologies for the thread drift but to correct a piece of mis-information:
That used to be the case, in fact in the early to mid 90s I met FOs who had waited 20 years for command. I joined late 89 and got a SH command after 10 years and three years later a LH command. Now, or until this virus arrived, commands on some fleets can be had after just a few years.
That used to be the case, in fact in the early to mid 90s I met FOs who had waited 20 years for command. I joined late 89 and got a SH command after 10 years and three years later a LH command. Now, or until this virus arrived, commands on some fleets can be had after just a few years.
I understand SH commands on airbus aren’t popular choices for experienced LH FOs as it’s a pretty harsh roster
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I guess you are one of those guys who rather want to lower you expectations to be able to fly?
Please, just let it continue the downward spiral, it does not matter, you probably think like some other big bosses, that pilots are overpaid.
It's not only in the USA where they get paid $300.000, much of Asia Captains also on these kind of salaries, $250.000 - $300.000, while in the EU, well we all know, how it is here.
120.000 Euro for a Captain is pretty poor, compared to USA and Asia. I can get more in Asia flying Cargo as an FO.
Please, just let it continue the downward spiral, it does not matter, you probably think like some other big bosses, that pilots are overpaid.
It's not only in the USA where they get paid $300.000, much of Asia Captains also on these kind of salaries, $250.000 - $300.000, while in the EU, well we all know, how it is here.
120.000 Euro for a Captain is pretty poor, compared to USA and Asia. I can get more in Asia flying Cargo as an FO.
for instance the guy who thought $110 dollars to be a 747 cruise pilot and thought that was ok, I don’t think that’s ok....
A lot of 737 captains joined NAS as 787 FOs or “ relief captains “ and it worked out for most of them with quick upgrades -
but it’s a risky move .
Not at all, I want to reach a certain level of renumeration for my services . That is limited by the role I play and my value to the employer. What do you think you should be paid ? A million dollars ?it’s just not up there......
for instance the guy who thought $110 dollars to be a 747 cruise pilot and thought that was ok, I don’t think that’s ok....
A lot of 737 captains joined NAS as 787 FOs or “ relief captains “ and it worked out for most of them with quick upgrades -
but it’s a risky move .
for instance the guy who thought $110 dollars to be a 747 cruise pilot and thought that was ok, I don’t think that’s ok....
A lot of 737 captains joined NAS as 787 FOs or “ relief captains “ and it worked out for most of them with quick upgrades -
but it’s a risky move .
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I guess you are one of those guys who rather want to lower you expectations to be able to fly?
Please, just let it continue the downward spiral, it does not matter, you probably think like some other big bosses, that pilots are overpaid.
It's not only in the USA where they get paid $300.000, much of Asia Captains also on these kind of salaries, $250.000 - $300.000, while in the EU, well we all know, how it is here.
120.000 Euro for a Captain is pretty poor, compared to USA and Asia. I can get more in Asia flying Cargo as an FO.
Please, just let it continue the downward spiral, it does not matter, you probably think like some other big bosses, that pilots are overpaid.
It's not only in the USA where they get paid $300.000, much of Asia Captains also on these kind of salaries, $250.000 - $300.000, while in the EU, well we all know, how it is here.
120.000 Euro for a Captain is pretty poor, compared to USA and Asia. I can get more in Asia flying Cargo as an FO.
And 17 year as an FO. Wow That sure is a long time without any real progression! But if command times are getting lower it sounds like it's moving in the right direction. I'm still looking for any info on a BA SH skipper salary out of Gatwick on his or hers second year in the left seat.
Also, remember that the salary I earned as stated above was from 2 years ago now. I see that the salary has gone up since apparently.
I don't understand your comment on the Asian or American wages. I think most of us think it's great that our collegues across the pond have been able to get it that high. The european market is just different, being full of different countries and all............
We can all (try) and go to asia for the big money, but in most peoples cases it's a tradeoff of time. As I have said before. A job is more than the sum of the money you make. Fixed roster, being at home or just having a great day out daily can all be very important factors.
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733driver: You are oversimplifying things quite a bit imo. The big airlines in the US has been the result of many, many bankruptcies and a reformed sector that used to pay very small wages up until very late in a pilots carreer. It's not easy being a new player in the market when the competetion paid 1/10000 of the price for a slot etc. 40-50 or 60+ years ago and so on. How would you ever get in on the market? Personally I would have done things differently regarding longhaul, but that's with 20/20 hindsight and no real interest of flying LH. But saying "Norwegian pay peanuts and go bust regardless. Go figure" is such a loaded blank statement without a fraction of a "calorie" in it that we really can't use it for anything. Should they have never tried? Could a 787 with endless problems and the 737-max have something to do with it as well? etc. etc etc. We get it. Norwegian bad - BA and so on, good. No matter the facts. Let's just go along with rumors and run with it since it fits with our narrative.
733driver: You are oversimplifying things quite a bit imo. The big airlines in the US has been the result of many, many bankruptcies and a reformed sector that used to pay very small wages up until very late in a pilots carreer. It's not easy being a new player in the market when the competetion paid 1/10000 of the price for a slot etc. 40-50 or 60+ years ago and so on. How would you ever get in on the market? Personally I would have done things differently regarding longhaul, but that's with 20/20 hindsight and no real interest of flying LH. But saying "Norwegian pay peanuts and go bust regardless. Go figure" is such a loaded blank statement without a fraction of a "calorie" in it that we really can't use it for anything. Should they have never tried? Could a 787 with endless problems and the 737-max have something to do with it as well? etc. etc etc. We get it. Norwegian bad - BA and so on, good. No matter the facts. Let's just go along with rumors and run with it since it fits with our narrative.
I never said or implied Norwegian should have never tried. I just don't like it when fellow pilots argue that lower wages are necessary for a successful aviation business. Simply not true. I'm also no BA fan-boy. In fact I would not want to work there either. Too much work.
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An impossible question to answer - AIUI you join on pay point 1, and each year progress up the scale, until pay point 34. The amount it increases depends if you are SH or LH. When you get a command, which recently was as quick as year 1 or 2 years in the company but historically was much later (10 years?), you side step onto the same pay point Captain scale, which is 25% higher. Therefore, a captain in his or her second year in the left seat could be earning pay point 3, or pay point 34. A quick browse on PPJN suggests this is a basic salary of between around £80k for SH pp3 to around £190k for LH pp34 not including flight allowances. The former sounds low for a legacy captain but then the system wasn't designed for such a junior command.
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An impossible question to answer - AIUI you join on pay point 1, and each year progress up the scale, until pay point 34. The amount it increases depends if you are SH or LH. When you get a command, which recently was as quick as year 1 or 2 years in the company but historically was much later (10 years?), you side step onto the same pay point Captain scale, which is 25% higher. Therefore, a captain in his or her second year in the left seat could be earning pay point 3, or pay point 34. A quick browse on PPJN suggests this is a basic salary of between around £80k for SH pp3 to around £190k for LH pp34 not including flight allowances. The former sounds low for a legacy captain but then the system wasn't designed for such a junior command.
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This thread is getting more and more surreal by the minute. An airline driven into $7 billion in dept by undercutting competition, defended by its former employees arguing they earned more as a captain than a BA F/O.
I’ll have to take a 5 minute break plastering my cracked ribs from laughing and crying
I’ll have to take a 5 minute break plastering my cracked ribs from laughing and crying
