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Hard times for Norwegian

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Hard times for Norwegian

Old 16th Mar 2021, 11:59
  #1201 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Posts: 126

Yes, many things are the same, BUT: looking at the proposed route network, it was only those LH routes that made money for Norwegian and the gang behind this project would know that. There is now a lower cost base through lower lease costs and no doubt lower staffing costs (OSM will take the opportunity to set lower T&C's of course...) The slots left behind by Virgin at LGW can be snapped up on the cheap, so why not. On top of that, I'm sure they've learned their lesson and won't cover aircraft maintenance downtime with Wamos etc as before, no doubt this downtime will be factored into any lease agreements including enough spare airframes on a 'power by the hour' agreement. Capitalism at its best quite simply
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Old 16th Mar 2021, 12:41
  #1202 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2002
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The Virgin slots at Gatwick are no longer available. Some pairs leased from Norwegian were returned, Norwegian then sold these. The remainder have gone to other carriers.
Having said that LGW is as quiet as a church mouse and I doubt getting slots would be an issue, but anything to do with "nordics" has a bad smell and they won't be caught out again
Kirks gusset is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2021, 16:52
  #1203 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
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Who in their right mind would do business with this crowd without cash up front? They would need one hell of a war chest to be able to prepay their expenses eg: leases, fuel, airport fees. And that is without the CAA imposing any rules on the UK operations to ring fence ticket sales should it all go boom again.
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Old 19th Mar 2021, 17:01
  #1204 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2013
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What a slap in the face to all those NAS employees that were either made redundant or still stuck in limbo whether their jobs even continue to exist. Meanwhile, the big boys have walked away and are trumpeting about their sparkly, new airline.
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Old 19th Mar 2021, 18:31
  #1205 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 112
With a queue of gullible, eager pilots eager to join these charlatans!
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Old 19th Mar 2021, 18:51
  #1206 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Age: 60
Posts: 780
Correct me if I am wrong, but post Brexit, the UK is out of the European Aviation Area. How can an AOC holder from Norway thus plan to operate from the UK to faraway places (US and ASIA). UK bilaterals or EU bilaterals?
oceancrosser is online now  
Old 19th Mar 2021, 20:40
  #1207 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Bonvoy Marriott
Posts: 143
how does that work with BA? Aren’t they majority owned outside the UK?
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Old 19th Mar 2021, 22:26
  #1208 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2002
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Notwithstanding the grace given by a "transition period"

In order to gain the traffic rights between theUKand the EU, airlines from each side must be owned and effectively controlled by nationals of their own side, must have their principal place of business in their own territory, and must hold an AOC from the competent authority in their own jurisdiction.
In other words a new UK AOC would require UK Control by UK Nationals.

Flexibility on UK airline ownership is aimed mainly at British Airways
This flexibility on the ownership of UK airlines appears to be aimed mainly at British Airways, which is owned by IAG.

The multinational airline group needs to be majority EU-owned so that its subsidiaries Iberia, Vueling and Aer Lingus could remain EUairlines. This would have caused a problem if it meant that BA no longer qualified as British.

It also allows the UK subsidiaries of other groups that are majority EU-owned to continue to operate as UK airlines. Examples include Ryanair UK, Wizz Air UK and easyJet's UK subsidiary (the parent group easyJet plc has chosen to become an EU airline – more on that below).
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Old 24th Mar 2021, 10:36
  #1209 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2010
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Norse Atlantic Airways plans to be listed on Euronext Growth (Oslo Stock Exchange) as of 12. April. Norse managed to raise over NOK1,28 billion in less than an hour from institutional investors today. Norse Atlantic Airways plans to start lowcost longhaul operations between Europe and the U.S. by year end (2021), using Boeing 787-8/9s, ex Norwegian. Start-up with a limited number of B787s, but plans for a demand driven growth with up to 12 B787s. The core business plan is to offer super low fares through industry low costbase and catch-up on Norwegian good market position in the U.S. and Europe for lowcost longhaul flights across the Atlantic. Plan calls for bases in London and US.Kjos eyes cooperation between Norwegian and Norse. HBK (Kjos and Kise) will also invest in Norwegian. The biggest investors in New Norwegian want him on the new board according media
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Old 24th Mar 2021, 16:10
  #1210 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2003
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No AOC. No Operating Licence. No route authority. No airport slots. And yet, people throw money at them and a brand new upstart company gets a listing. What could possibly go wrong?
oceancrosser is online now  
Old 24th Mar 2021, 16:50
  #1211 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 651
Norwegian’s main reason for its failure in terms of its long-haul low-cost operations is that the low-cost model is not suited to long-haul – these routes cannot turn enough profit to support low, attractive fares. Full-service carriers are now entering into this market by offering low-cost options. This will attract a type of traveller that may not have considered flying this way before and could have the potential to become loyal customers due to an increased standard of service and enticing loyalty programs. This increased competition will also make things harder for the new entrant.

Norris adds: “Norse Atlantic Airways must change its business model if it is to survive. The only way full-service carriers can succeed in this low-cost market is due to the provision of high yielding business and first-class cabins, making flights more profitable. To give itself the best possible chance of success, Norse Atlantic needs to take this into consideration and learn from the mistake that Norwegian made – namely not having such cabins.
There is no "external investment" the 24 Million was the initial share capital, and with kjos's hubris the potential investment could be small. As for priority for ex NAS pilots? why? it's a different company, only selection criteria will be type rated, pay your own interview and training costs and be prepared to sign a zero hour contract with a dodgy third party crew supplier.
They may have agreement in principle for 9 B 787 leases but they will need a load more cash before the wheels turn.

Norse Atlantic says the net proceeds will be used for lease deposits of $4 million on up to 12 aircraft, funding of start-up costs including pre-delivery operational expenditure of $24 million, gross working capital of $80 million, transaction costs of $9 million, and general corporate purposes including licenses and marketing costs of $33 million.
Sound familiar !

Last edited by Kirks gusset; 24th Mar 2021 at 20:30.
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Old 24th Mar 2021, 20:40
  #1212 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2010
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DNB asset management, Nordea investment management and Handelsbanken all participated in the share placement, with around 64 million dollars of the total 150 million dollars raised from investors today.
Norse confirmed in an interview with finansavisen.no that they actually aim for a fleet of around 30 dreamliners as soon as covid ends.
Norse looks increasingly like an exact blueprint of Norwegian LH.

Last edited by directmisbi; 24th Mar 2021 at 21:16.
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Old 25th Mar 2021, 08:27
  #1213 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Apparently trying to be EI registered to circumnavigate restrictions on employment law in Norway. No doubt this will allow them UK access.
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Old 25th Mar 2021, 08:31
  #1214 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2009
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It's going to happen and it will be (at least initially) a success. It's going to be the same operation except in name but minus the debt. NLH v1 wasn't as low cost as it was made out to be. For the public it was but internally there were a lot of inefficiencies. The operation wasn't lean enough due to multiple AOCs and vanity projects led by people with a legacy carrier mentality. Lessons will have been learnt from NLH v1. Furthermore, governments and XAAs will be keen to cut red tape and offer incentives for airlines to restart. I can even see the AOCs being rubber stamped on the basis that the post holders, company manuals, standards and SOPs will largely be identical to the NLH model. On the topic of employment, a UK AOC will only be allowed to employ Brits. And I would put the number of current redundant B787 rated Brits at somewhere around 150 +/- 25.
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Old 25th Mar 2021, 09:33
  #1215 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2002
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" To continue operating EU-registered aircraft, you may seek a licence validation from any of the EASA Competent Authorities, which would be valid for aircraft registered in any EASA Member State."
With only 9 Aircraft a Gatwick base is unlikely in the near future and there is no long term prospect with the LC LH model. Best option would be for pilots to get validations and work abroad..
The concept of AOC outside of Norway to circumvent strict labour laws should ring alarm bells, sadly folks never learn.
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Old 25th Mar 2021, 09:47
  #1216 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Originally Posted by Smooth Airperator View Post
Furthermore, governments and XAAs will be keen to cut red tape and offer incentives for airlines to restart.
I wouldn't hold my breath of red tape being cut, when it comes to UK if anything since 1st January is to go by.

Originally Posted by Smooth Airperator View Post
On the topic of employment, a UK AOC will only be allowed to employ Brits.
You mean anyone with the right to live and work in the UK, right, not exclusively British passport holders?
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Old 25th Mar 2021, 10:05
  #1217 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2011
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Apologies for coming in late but is it not the case that Directors of a failed company are barred from employment in the same positions in the same industry for at least 5 years ? It was, something like that, in my hazy memory of GCE A level economics in 1965. Must all be a gut-wrench for previous Norwegian employees.
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Old 25th Mar 2021, 10:57
  #1218 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2009
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That is true FlyingStone
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Old 25th Mar 2021, 14:20
  #1219 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Posts: 624
Hasta La Vista

Spain (if it ramps up) one aircraft in AGP and one in BCN, 2021/22 then if the tooth fairy comes, up to 6 aircraft in summer 2022, 3 each base. Total Pilots needed 72 at 100%
Unions will negotiate the terms
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Old 25th Mar 2021, 16:11
  #1220 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Europe
Posts: 35

ALC not BCN. Sorry for the guys affected, but it was pretty obvious what was about to happen.
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