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Hard times for Norwegian

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Hard times for Norwegian

Old 7th Dec 2020, 10:56
  #981 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: In the sunshine
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You apparently refuse to face the realities. The airline industry in Europe has been struggling for years. We need to do something to at least slow down this idiotic race to the bottom. Norwegian, Ryanair and Wizz air have all been driving this very unfortunate development,

Norwegian has never been able to make enough money, they have always been living on loans and unsustainable expansion. Basically paying todays bills with tomorrows money. They would need to be held under the wings for at least 2-3 years in order to have any chance of long term survival.
Nobody wants to put that much money into a failed. company.

That is why Norwegian will not be missed in any way.

I could not care less what your opinion of me is.

Apparently you are not able to discuss anything in a grown up manner, I would never fly with a person with such limited intellect

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Old 7th Dec 2020, 11:25
  #982 (permalink)  
 
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Diavel

Ponzi scheme, why would make yourself look a dick with a comment like that and a with let’s get rid of it?

Way better customer service than FR, Wizz and EasyJet, on par or close to with Jet2 ( finances aside) they tried something new and for a while it worked, long haul was great value for money and if any of it comes back then it will need low cost long haul to get the market moving.

Some of the employment practices were messy for all involved but above board with tax and NI paid by all the employers, they paid well too especially if you were in the training department, I wish them well, but it will be a Herculean task to come back from where they are now.
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Old 7th Dec 2020, 13:00
  #983 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...tion-1.4429799

First hurdle overcome, now they have 100 days to secure cash investment and an agreed plan. Importantly to "exit" the process, the investment must be received. Let's see, but at least a breathing space.

But another fly is swimming in the ointment "The court heard that Norwegian Air International, is in dispute with the Revenue Commissioners over €23 million. The State’s Tax Appeal Commission is currently dealing with the issue."
"Creditors seeking a further $28 million in liabilities, including passenger refunds for flights cancelled earlier this year, have emerged since the Norwegian Air companies were granted provisional protection on November 18th."

That's another 51M to find but as a slice of 4.1Billion is small fry, however settlement of any undisputed amounts would be
fundamental to a successful outcome.
The judge said he had agreed to protection of Oslo-based Norwegian Air as well as its Irish subsidiaries as the survival of each was dependent on the survival of the other.

"I have concluded in this case that it is appropriate to appoint an examiner both in relation to the five petitioner companies and also in relation to the related company Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA," Justice Michael Quinn told the court.

Last edited by Kirks gusset; 7th Dec 2020 at 18:16.
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Old 7th Dec 2020, 15:29
  #984 (permalink)  
 
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Looks like SAS aren’t counting Norwegian out yet either.

https://www.flightglobal.com/airline...141440.article
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Old 7th Dec 2020, 18:18
  #985 (permalink)  
 
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Yes with Wizz looking to base more aircraft and this: https://www.flightglobal.com/airline...141471.article
It's going to be a bloodbath price wise

In an apparent bid to damage its rival, the Hungarian carrier is cutting prices on the 700-mile route between Oslo and the Arctic city of Tromso to just £15, with some flights operating within five minutes of Norwegian’s departures.
Even before the coronavirus pandemic began, Norwegian was loss-making – by an average of £3.70 per passenger during 2019.

Last edited by Kirks gusset; 8th Dec 2020 at 09:28.
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Old 7th Dec 2020, 18:34
  #986 (permalink)  
 
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There seems to be an endless supply of people willing to lose money in the aviation industry.
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Old 8th Dec 2020, 21:28
  #987 (permalink)  
 
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As an aside I received an email from Norwegian stating that my cash points were due to expire at the end of this year and would I like to extend them until the end of June next year, which I accepted.
Those "cash points" are probably now worth more than Norwegian shares
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Old 10th Dec 2020, 12:58
  #988 (permalink)  
 
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Norwegian share price romping up today. What’s going on?
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Old 11th Dec 2020, 12:17
  #989 (permalink)  
 
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Daytraders playing musical chairs with a pennystock.
Plus Norwegian did a litle pump and dump themselves, officially by error: https://newsweb.oslobors.no/message/520314
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Old 11th Dec 2020, 12:32
  #990 (permalink)  
 
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Buying and selling your own shares will either encourage others to buy and push prices up, or when the balloon bursts fall through the floor.

Creditors in Scandinavia have filed claims of close to €170 million against troubled airline Norwegian Air Shuttle (NAS), which has court protection in the Republic and its home country.
!70 Million in the home country and 51Million in Eire, over 221Million now needs settling before the exit process, in other words a lot lot more will be required than the 340M indicated by investors, these debts are not willing to be converted to shares due to their nature.
On the positive side, yet again more breathing space to get shot of the LH fleet and obligations, although they won't want to do that until Boeing settle as Boeing would use such a move to their advantage, although the long arm relationship between Boeing and the Trent means the only perusable case will be the 737 Max.
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Old 11th Dec 2020, 15:43
  #991 (permalink)  
 
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Another 787 on it's way from SNN - 3 this week.
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Old 12th Dec 2020, 13:17
  #992 (permalink)  
 
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Somehow I dont think Wizz Air venture into the Norwegian domestic market is going too well. Today,from local media
“ Wizz Air believes boycott campaigns against the company are bullying and in violation of international law”
Talk about making bad excuses. Loadfactors have been horrendous and they are cancelling departures right, left and center much to the disapproval of their customers.
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Old 12th Dec 2020, 18:20
  #993 (permalink)  
 
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Lars Daniel Westby, the analyst who predicted the chapter 11 process for Norwegian a week before it actually happened :

”Norwegian should get rid of the long-haul fleet.. And whether it is sold or closed down "really has nothing to say", because it is in short haul that Norwegian has made money. On the other hand, he believes that there will "certainly" be investors who are interested in Norwegian's market position, brand name and loyalty program. And therefore: - We will fly with Norwegian in the future”, says Westby.

I disagree with Westby regarding the LH-part. Certainly a portion of LH was profitable, but whether that is the case after covid remains to be seen. Initial plans for New Norwegian, indicated around half of the current LH fleet being kept on. Leisure traffic will rebound strongly and Norwegian would be perfectly placed in that market to take up competition with a strong (value for money) product. According media, management are still undecided but owners(creditors) would obviously have to agree.


Last edited by uncle-traveling-matt; 12th Dec 2020 at 18:48.
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Old 12th Dec 2020, 18:49
  #994 (permalink)  
 
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Let's assume that in 2022, short haul leisure travel revives and in 2023, long haul leisure travel comes back to life while business travel remains well below 2019 levels
Why would Norwegian be strongly placed ? Surely, all the main network carriers around the world would be competing hard for the same leisure pax travelling to/from northern Europe ?
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Old 12th Dec 2020, 19:20
  #995 (permalink)  
 
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There has never been a successful low cost LH operator, Freddie Laker tried, Pimera tried https://www.wired.co.uk/article/prim...udget-carriers

If you want to trawl the thoughts of "industry experts"..if there is such a thing!

https://centreforaviation.com/events...mit-72/capa-tv

Before Covid it was always a struggle to get Business travel LH, they were the first seats to fill. Yes, potentially there is a market for the cheaper fares but without premium seats carriers struggle to make ends meet, 40 seats at 1000 is a lot more than 60 seats at 400. Multiply this by daily sectors additional boarding times, it just doesn't work. On the other hand, using wide body on SH routes can work, Hainan, THY etc proved this.

Last edited by Kirks gusset; 12th Dec 2020 at 19:31.
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Old 12th Dec 2020, 19:37
  #996 (permalink)  
 
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Sure, here is the opinion of Willie Walsh:

However, Walsh was quick to point out that the low-cost long-haul model pioneered by Norwegian was still very much a great idea.

“There is a profitable niche there, and we are going to serve it,” he says. “We are committed to expanding Level. It is performing very well in the markets it is operating in.”

LEVEL is attempting to replicate the success of Norwegian.



At the end of the discussion, Walsh did seem to be a little jealous of what Norwegian CEO, Bjorn Kjos, had been able to pull off (and how Norwegian was really biting at the heels of British Airways on some routes).

“He’s proven, if not to everybody but certainly to us, that the market exists and the customer will embrace the business model.”

https://simpleflying.com/iag-wont-ru...-its-unlikely/
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Old 12th Dec 2020, 19:45
  #997 (permalink)  
 
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Well yes and no. Norwegian had pockets of profitability. Let's hope that the Creditors restart the Airline and learn the lessons from the past.
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Old 13th Dec 2020, 00:20
  #998 (permalink)  
 
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There is a world of difference between code shared flights operated under open skies where established airlines already have the infrastructure and one airline trying to go it alone in an already oversubscribed market.
If NAS have any sense they will concentrate on the profit for sanity of SH operations and forget the vanity of LH where the overheads are crippling the company and demand won't return for years. The shareholders with lease commitments on 787 will obviously want to keep their hardware under contract but any potential external investors will be doubtful given the track record. Of course, if Boeing stump up big bucks, that may just be enough to tip the balance.
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Old 13th Dec 2020, 02:56
  #999 (permalink)  
 
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davidjohnson6

It's sort of a matter of staying alive until then though. Sounds like chance would be a fine thing!
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Old 13th Dec 2020, 16:35
  #1000 (permalink)  
 
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Profits are sanity, orders are vanity. A wise old aviation saying that gets ignored time and time again. Norwegian should focus on profit and leave all vanity projects if it wants to survive. Even before COVID the LH adventure has taken a well placed and profitable low cost SH airline to the brink of bankruptcy. I am sure some LH routes where profitable at some times of the year but given the not yet resolved engine problems of the 787, the projected slow start of the LH market and the big question mark over the business model this is an adventure Norwegian can no longer afford. Some will argue with some merit that it never could ....
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