RIP Capt. Al Haynes.
I was just a FI starting my flying career, building hours in the early ´90s.
One day i got the opportunity to join a lecture AL gave at Langley AFB, VA.
Al introduced himself and let us first see and hear what happened before giving a lecture so simple and strong i have never experienced again, i cannot remember how long it took, but i do remember the tapes, the real recording with ATC!
The moment I heard ATC talking I thought " I think I know this guy!"
AL`s lecture was amazing, will never forget it!
And he did it in so simple words, as it was "normal" to him, just to do HIS and his crew´s job.
I learned a lot that evening, and still carrying it with me, because that lecture you don't get in flight school nor CRM-courses nor from fellow colleagues .....
from nobody!
2 days later I did (i think) an IR training flight with a guy that was an ATC controller in Newport News airport, it was the ATC guy that offered AL even a highway close to the airport in case they could not make it or needed an option (the guy I heard on the tape from AL` lecture)
This ATC guy (sorry bud, i forgot your name, its in my logbook but i am away from home...) left his hectic NY ATC place for a quiet Iowa...... and than got this on his hands....
To the family of AL, I am sorry for your loss, but you all can be proud of him, at least HE showed me some real CRM
RIP AL!
One day i got the opportunity to join a lecture AL gave at Langley AFB, VA.
Al introduced himself and let us first see and hear what happened before giving a lecture so simple and strong i have never experienced again, i cannot remember how long it took, but i do remember the tapes, the real recording with ATC!
The moment I heard ATC talking I thought " I think I know this guy!"
AL`s lecture was amazing, will never forget it!
And he did it in so simple words, as it was "normal" to him, just to do HIS and his crew´s job.
I learned a lot that evening, and still carrying it with me, because that lecture you don't get in flight school nor CRM-courses nor from fellow colleagues .....
from nobody!
2 days later I did (i think) an IR training flight with a guy that was an ATC controller in Newport News airport, it was the ATC guy that offered AL even a highway close to the airport in case they could not make it or needed an option (the guy I heard on the tape from AL` lecture)
This ATC guy (sorry bud, i forgot your name, its in my logbook but i am away from home...) left his hectic NY ATC place for a quiet Iowa...... and than got this on his hands....
To the family of AL, I am sorry for your loss, but you all can be proud of him, at least HE showed me some real CRM
RIP AL!
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wanderlust
Posts: 3,403
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
His ingrained attitude, save the aircraft and hence the passengers, led him to try what was proved to be an almost superhuman manoeuvre that sadly led to the loss of 110 lives. How about we just scrap the aircraft and save more lives, indeed, such is the strength of the DC10 that there may well have been no lives lost.
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Banksville
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You’ve betrayed ignorance of the facts
RIP Cpt Haynes. Just after the accident, I posted my opinion, which was roundly condemned by most but not everyone, thankfully. I made the point that Iowa is a largely flat state. I suggested that pilot's not unnatural desire to get their stricken aircraft back to an airport and to land on a runway made Cpt Haynes job a lot more difficult than if he had simply looked for the largest cornfield and glided it onto the ground. His ingrained attitude, save the aircraft and hence the passengers, led him to try what was proved to be an almost superhuman manoeuvre that sadly led to the loss of 110 lives. How about we just scrap the aircraft and save more lives, indeed, such is the strength of the DC10 that there may well have been no lives lost. Hypothetical, I know but I thought it bears repeating that there are often more than the obvious outcomes to such situations.
No gliding available.
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: schermoney and left front seat
Age: 57
Posts: 2,438
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't think anything can be more ridiculous than this. Everyone only tries to save lives but that's generally not possible unless the aircraft is kept in one or at least a few pieces. Gliding is also flying. With controls failure with a tendency to roll what Haynes did is nothing short of miracle.
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Antarctica
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'll close the flight deck door on my way out.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dortmund
Age: 54
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flight Safety Foundation point out a guest article he wrote back in 1991 for one of their publications: United 232
Ten pages well written and worth reading. And even including some humor:
Ten pages well written and worth reading. And even including some humor:
By then, we were about 14 seconds into the episode, and Bill said to me, “Al, I can’t control the airplane.” [...] I then said the dumbest thing I ever said in my life: “I’ve got it.”
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Potomac Heights
Posts: 470
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rubik: Just a few points about gliding into the ground. To do that in a controlled fashion, you need to have the ability to use your tail control surfaces to flare the plane to a slower speed, And to not stall at this slower speed, you need to be able to deploy your flaps. This plane had none of these options available. They could not slow below 200+ kts and keep the plane in the air. They could not raise the nose other than by increasing engine thrust. While gliding might have been a good idea if they could dump speed down to 120 kts., but they could not. And as we know, KE = (1/2)*m*(v^2). So they had close to 3 times as much kinetic energy to deal with as in a controlled ditching. It was a miracle that they could even get the first impact with wings close to level.
Excellent link, noske! An amazing recounting of a petrifying tale from the PIC himself. One must salute Captain Haynes as he and Sully play poker and draw to (and hit!) royal flushes in Heaven, where the Wx is always CAVOK and engines never fail....
- Ed
- Ed
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Stockport MAN/EGCC
Age: 70
Posts: 991
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Respect
David
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Surrounded by aluminum, and the great outdoors
Posts: 3,780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Your a pilot Rubik and I'm not. So on this esteemed forum I should just keep my fat mouth shut, but in this case have you ever wondered why you were the subject of such opprobrium and why you still continue to be? May I suggest you search for the missing logic in your argument since at the moment it seems like you would have taken this deeply stricken airliner and its precious cargo into a remote paddock and because physics is ...well physics, you would have suffered exactly the same low speed controlability issues that Captain Haynes and his erstwhile crew did. Except the unknowns of your cornfield probably would have solicited a much worse outcome and this is before we even consider that you have removed yourself from the life support systems that are encapsulated in our emergency response teams at the airfield. This aircraft should not have still been capable of being flown, but it was. Not to take anything away from Sully or the recent Russian A320 crash, but in contrast these events left the crews with quite flyable aircraft if you accept that flight time was extremely limited. Capt Haynes and the crew of AA96 (an earlieer DC10 cargo door blow out event) were both left struggling with aircraft that no longer wanted to remain in stable flight.The teamwork, ingenuity, personal skills and ability and most importantly, the 'don't give up' attitude, in both of these cases avoided complete disasters and saved far more lives than you give credit for Rubik. I throw your own quote back at you, 'there are often more than the obvious outcomes to such situations".
I'll close the flight deck door on my way out.
I'll close the flight deck door on my way out.
very well said, you have better "aviation judgment" than Rubik, if indeed he is a pilot...(hopefully he is not)
A true American hero, Capt Haynes, Capt Dennis Fitch (RIP), First Officer Bill Records and Flight Engineer (Dudley Dvorak, I believe) all worked as a team to do the best they could and made a truly superhuman effort. The co-operation between Haynes and Fitch ranks as one of the most outstanding examples of CRM you'd see. RIP Captain Haynes, you excelled.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Surrounded by aluminum, and the great outdoors
Posts: 3,780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A true American hero, Capt Haynes, Capt Dennis Fitch (RIP), First Officer Bill Records and Flight Engineer (Dudley Dvorak, I believe) all worked as a team to do the best they could and made a truly superhuman effort. The co-operation between Haynes and Fitch ranks as one of the most outstanding examples of CRM you'd see. RIP Captain Haynes, you excelled.
yes indeed....
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the north starts
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SLF here. Reading the CVR transcript http://www.tailstrike.com/190789.pdf, there was initially an (unnamed) Captain riding in the jumpseat, who contributed early on to getting the aircraft under some degree of control. He later gave way to Capt Fitch and then went to sit back in the cabin. Did he survive the subsequent landing?
