Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

British Airways Centenary Becomes A PR Nightmare

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

British Airways Centenary Becomes A PR Nightmare

Old 11th Sep 2019, 18:27
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Co. Down
Age: 78
Posts: 524
Sad to see the decline of what was once a world leader. Surprised that nobody seems to recall that BA owns half the slots at Heathrow simply because they were once reserved for domestic flights -- essential to Scottish business, even more to both parts of Ireland where the train is not an option. It's a licence to print money for its foreign owners, just like most of our airports in fact. To my mind BA never got over the competition from British Midland and BCal introduced by Mrs Thatcher; as an occasional traveller I would no more consider BA than Ryanair. Good luck to the staff seeking their share of the profits.
Geriaviator is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2019, 19:28
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 706
Strikes rarely bring good things - especially when the public does not see the employee's problem.
As has been pointed out many times. Whether the public see the problem or not is as relevant as the price of sprouts. These people are not public servants delivering life-critical services. Strikes are damaging exercises. Sometimes it is the only way forward.
BitMoreRightRudder is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2019, 20:25
  #63 (permalink)  
Paxing All Over The World
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hertfordshire, UK.
Age: 63
Posts: 8,951
Striking may appeal to many and be seen as the way forward. In my 40 years of observing British life (as an adult) I can only think of two or three occaisions when it has. They were to do with equal pay and equality of opportunites. But bear in mind, that those issues are still not resolved. Since British Mgmt sees it as a do-or-die issue, expect no way forward.
PAXboy is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2019, 22:17
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by PAXboy View Post
Striking may appeal to many and be seen as the way forward. In my 40 years of observing British life (as an adult) I can only think of two or three occaisions when it has. They were to do with equal pay and equality of opportunites. But bear in mind, that those issues are still not resolved. Since British Mgmt sees it as a do-or-die issue, expect no way forward.
Are you saying it’s best to just comply with management in their desire to lower costs and reward management and the shareholders? Don’t advocate for yourself for a competitive wage? And by “competitive”, I mean for your industry and qualifications on a market basis.
cessnaxpilot is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2019, 09:20
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 48
Heathrow Slots Owned in Perpetuity ?

[QUOTE=Geriaviator;10567592]Sad to see the decline of what was once a world leader. Surprised that nobody seems to recall that BA owns half the slots at Heathrow simply because they were once reserved for domestic flights -- essential to Scottish business, even more to both parts of Ireland where the train is not an option...…}

Yes. I am sad to see BA Managers getting bonuses for a profit that they have done nothing to create.
Bueno Hombre is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2019, 13:29
  #66 (permalink)  
Paxing All Over The World
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hertfordshire, UK.
Age: 63
Posts: 8,951
cessnaxpilot
Are you saying it’s best to just comply with management in their desire to lower costs and reward management and the shareholders? Don’t advocate for yourself for a competitive wage? And by “competitive”, I mean for your industry and qualifications on a market basis.
Not at all. I am saying that mgmt have only themselves to blame for this mess. Sadly, striking will not improve the mess. Mgmt failed but everyone loses.
PAXboy is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2019, 13:30
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Australia
Age: 80
Posts: 24
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
Yes, BA quit the route in October 2000, I believe.
Sorry about that,,flew domestic BNESYD
OLD AGE IS A CURSE
reefrat is offline  
Old 13th Sep 2019, 06:27
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: BHX LXR ASW
Posts: 2,153
Did anyone watch last night's Channel 5 programme on BA. I thought it was really interesting. What I didn't like was the Y seats being replaced from 9 a breast to 10 a breast. They look just like the short haul seats on Easy. Do they actually recline?

All that fiddling around with cabin service reminded me of my training at Cranebank. We learnt how to use a spoon and fork properly and serve from a trolley, not moan about a stiff paif of tongs! Poor thing couldn't even pick up a tart with them!
crewmeal is offline  
Old 13th Sep 2019, 07:37
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Stralya
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by crewmeal View Post
Poor thing couldn't even pick up a tart with them!
Theres more than one way to pick up a tart!
wondrousbitofrough is offline  
Old 13th Sep 2019, 08:19
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Farnborough Hants
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by Bueno Hombre View Post
Yes. I am sad to see BA Managers getting bonuses for a profit that they have done nothing to create.
Personally I am sad to see any manager getting a bonus just for doing their job correctly - that is what they are being paid their salary for, in the first place.

Anyway - latest I heard on BBC News this morning is that BA Pilots/BALPA are planning a "super strike" in October to bring BA to its knees, something that will cost the airline "at least 400 million pounds" IIRC.
Is this really a sane way for any union / member of staff to carry on ? Could BA go out of business and IAG build up Iberia instead, totally unconcerned that some BA staff wipe out the company in its nominal 100th year?
Paul Lupp is offline  
Old 13th Sep 2019, 09:22
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 49
BA management are girding up for a fight. They are notifying pax due to fly at the end of the month of cancellations scheduled more than 14 days ahead to avoid compensation payments in the event of a 27 September strike so it looks like they are in no mood for compromise and are expecting further disruption. So it is hardly surprising that the pilots are not backing down either. I don't know why BA can't offer the staff shares, or similar, and a voice on the board so they can participate in the success of the airline and be involved in its future. I was a frequent BOAC flyer in the old days (got the badge etc) and it is really sad to see this situation.
oscarisapc is offline  
Old 13th Sep 2019, 12:24
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,429
Originally Posted by Paul Lupp View Post
Could BA go out of business and IAG build up Iberia instead,
Are you suggesting IAG simply replace BA with Iberia? If so how would you envisage that working? Do you envisage Iberia taking over the UK operation, LHR slots etc.
wiggy is offline  
Old 13th Sep 2019, 14:54
  #73 (permalink)  
Pegase Driver
 
Join Date: May 1997
Location: Europe
Age: 69
Posts: 2,643
Originally Posted by Paul Lupp View Post
Could BA go out of business and IAG build up Iberia instead, totally unconcerned that some BA staff wipe out the company in its nominal 100th year?
3 years ago I would have laughed and say no way, but watching the current Brexit debacle I must say that would not surprise me .
For most of my career I regarded the UK aviation system being CAA or BA or its safety culture and what they represented with admiration. How can they in a few years only go down where they are now ?
ATC Watcher is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2019, 00:48
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 568
Perhaps it is time for the idea of a national airline to go. The economic competition from low cost carriers is making the full service/national airlines marginal, especially as they usually have sub scale integrated operations including training, maintenance etc.
The example of the shipping industry is a relevant guide, the national carriers did not survive, but rather were replaced by the likes of a Maersk or a Carnival Cruises, specialized and ruthlessly efficient global players with only two or three surviving competitors.
If BA management shares that perception, they will be looking to reposition the enterprise accordingly, irrespective of the short term disruption. The core BA asset from that perspective is the preponderant London slot ownership, rather than the existing staff.
etudiant is online now  
Old 14th Sep 2019, 09:05
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,429
Originally Posted by etudiant View Post
If BA management shares that perception, they will be looking to reposition the enterprise accordingly, irrespective of the short term disruption. The core BA asset from that perspective is the preponderant London slot ownership, rather than the existing staff.
Firstly do you mean BA management, or IAG management?

Can I also ask if you are of the opinion that retaining "BA management" whilst "repositioning the enterprise" would guarantee ( as much as that is ever possible) the future of the enterprise itself?
wiggy is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2019, 09:58
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: england
Posts: 661
I see that IAG have just been advised by the EU that it isn’t being classed as an EU owned airline. I also noticed that its European competitors led by LH and AF were putting pressure on the Brussels to do something about it, which could be a breakup of IAG.
What that would mean for future industrial relations is anyone’s guess. Would make it easier for BA to issue shares to its staff for profit share though.

Last edited by hunterboy; 14th Sep 2019 at 10:23. Reason: punctuation
hunterboy is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2019, 10:19
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 49
Maybe the survival of BA doesn't matter to managers

The example of the shipping industry is a relevant guide, the national carriers did not survive, but rather were replaced by the likes of a Maersk or a Carnival Cruises, specialized and ruthlessly efficient global players with only two or three surviving competitors.
If BA management shares that perception, they will be looking to reposition the enterprise accordingly, irrespective of the short term disruption.
That's a really interesting perspective. You might be right. If we take the example of cruises, with which I am becoming more familiar as the years advance, the old national lines taken over by Carnival still keep their national flavour eg food in the restaurants, ports of call, senior staff recruitment, language of signs etc. but are still part of one family. I was amazed to find that two totally different cruise experiences (good but that's not the point) from Cunard and Holland America Lines respectively were in essence both run by Carnival who use their massive dominance of the industry to generate economies of scale. There are advantages in having different brands for the same product supplied by a monopoly supplier. If that is the case, then pax suggesting they will never fly BA again because of poor service are wasting their time because what they really need to say is that they will never fly IAG again, which will be difficult.

Last edited by oscarisapc; 14th Sep 2019 at 10:23. Reason: change impossible to difficult last line
oscarisapc is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2019, 12:02
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 568
Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Firstly do you mean BA management, or IAG management?

Can I also ask if you are of the opinion that retaining "BA management" whilst "repositioning the enterprise" would guarantee ( as much as that is ever possible) the future of the enterprise itself?
I have no idea who would wind up in charge, but historically, the process has a handful of very senior managers with a small team purging the entire structure while also reslotting the survivors. So a BA manager would be even more at risk than a BA pilot.
The enterprise, in this view, rests on the effective ownership of air access to London, still the global financial hub. The restructured entity would control that asset still, no matter what the name.

Last edited by etudiant; 14th Sep 2019 at 12:27.
etudiant is online now  
Old 14th Sep 2019, 13:28
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: West Sussex
Age: 78
Posts: 4,201
Originally Posted by etudiant View Post
The enterprise, in this view, rests on the effective ownership of air access to London, still the global financial hub. The restructured entity would control that asset still, no matter what the name.
If by ownership of air access to London you mean the London slots, these are not owned but allocated. They can just as easily be re-allocated. If BA, by strikes, management incompetence, whatever, is unable or unwilling to provide a dependable use of those slots then they should be re-allocated. The slots are not there to provide life long employment to anyone.

The navel gazing by some here has only one logical outcome. No company is too important or too large to fail, as those employed by Pan-Am discovered.
Chugalug2 is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2019, 13:44
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 568
Originally Posted by Chugalug2 View Post
If by ownership of air access to London you mean the London slots, these are not owned but allocated. They can just as easily be re-allocated. If BA, by strikes, management incompetence, whatever, is unable or unwilling to provide a dependable use of those slots then they should be re-allocated. The slots are not there to provide life long employment to anyone.

The navel gazing by some here has only one logical outcome. No company is too important or too large to fail, as those employed by Pan-Am discovered.
You put your finger on the critical issue, who decides who gets the London slots.
I do not know what process is used to allocate them, but it was very contentious iirc last time when some were reallocated, possibly after the Pan Am demise. Obviously the government has ultimate authority, but presumably there is compensation if slots are removed by decree.
So they are a huge BA/IAG asset right now which should remain intact even if BA/IAG gets massively restructured, as long as the enterprise continues to maintain the current usage level. That leaves plenty of room for massive personnel and policy changes.

etudiant is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.