Easyjet pilot grounded for whatsapp message to friends
Join Date: Jan 2004
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We should all take notice. This 'case' is interesting because it shows that social-media is not the proper place to air your troubles and/or grievances.
Peers, colleagues and/or friends who are not qualified to (assess someones mental state or any other 'legal' issue for that matter) make these decisions can cause enormous harm no matter how well intentioned.
This person should have sought counseling if he/she was this desperate. His/her 'peers' in the WhatsApp group could not fathom his/her state of mind and thus decided to alert his/her employer.
If he/she had sought counseling hopefully things would have been handled more discreetly and after a while he/she would have been allowed to resume duty.
Now with all the media attention such becomes very difficult even if there is no actual risk anymore.
I recall a case where someone spend almost 8 years awaiting trial for something his colleagues thought he confessed to.
"I know you believe that you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure if you realize that what you heard is not what I meant". So true!
Peers, colleagues and/or friends who are not qualified to (assess someones mental state or any other 'legal' issue for that matter) make these decisions can cause enormous harm no matter how well intentioned.
This person should have sought counseling if he/she was this desperate. His/her 'peers' in the WhatsApp group could not fathom his/her state of mind and thus decided to alert his/her employer.
If he/she had sought counseling hopefully things would have been handled more discreetly and after a while he/she would have been allowed to resume duty.
Now with all the media attention such becomes very difficult even if there is no actual risk anymore.
I recall a case where someone spend almost 8 years awaiting trial for something his colleagues thought he confessed to.
"I know you believe that you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure if you realize that what you heard is not what I meant". So true!
Join Date: Jun 1999
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Would you fly with someone who had had chicken pox in the past? What about if they'd had a heart attack? What if they were short sighted and needed glasses?
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I know of at least three pilots who have killed them selves , it’s not immune to this sort of thing than any other industry.
the difference with eurowings was, he decided that wasn’t enough and wanted to be a mass murderer as well. Piece of ####.
the difference with eurowings was, he decided that wasn’t enough and wanted to be a mass murderer as well. Piece of ####.
The more airlines (and regulators) that treat mental health issues as an "instant grounding", the more pilots will choose to suffer in silence and the more unsafe the overall outcomes will be.
Can be tragedies on the home front and no mental illness also, impossible to know and this is not the forum for it but more in general...
Good advice earlier trying to talk to someone mature non-judgemental person with some life experience themselves...
Good advice earlier trying to talk to someone mature non-judgemental person with some life experience themselves...
Join Date: Aug 2003
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confidentiality / safety
part of the Germanwings case that i found particularly shocking was that Andreas Lubitz's own doctor had declared him "unfit for duties" - but the doctor didn't report this to the airline.
i haven't heard anything from EASA / national governments since then to change the doctor's duty of confidentiality ... to a duty of reporting concerns to the employer.
i haven't heard anything from EASA / national governments since then to change the doctor's duty of confidentiality ... to a duty of reporting concerns to the employer.
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part of the Germanwings case that i found particularly shocking was that Andreas Lubitz's own doctor had declared him "unfit for duties" - but the doctor didn't report this to the airline.
i haven't heard anything from EASA / national governments since then to change the doctor's duty of confidentiality ... to a duty of reporting concerns to the employer.
i haven't heard anything from EASA / national governments since then to change the doctor's duty of confidentiality ... to a duty of reporting concerns to the employer.
Any mandatory reporting of your health state to your employer will assure that many pilots will refrain from mentioning any problematic issue to their MD and rather deal with it without any help, which would not be ideal at all.
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All pilots are licensed under aviation regulators and as part of this are subject to extensive regular medical assessments which include mental health assessments
So yeah, perhaps your AME forgot, but if so it doesn't speak highly of adherence to standard.
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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A WhatsApp group is social media
Someone with previous mental health issues not being on a shorter leash: not ideal either.
Join Date: Apr 2011
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The company I work for class any WhatsApp messages sent to a group of 2 or more as social media. We have had colleague Get into bother because of messages being sent on WhatsApp groups.
Company emails are sent to approved people and password protected, sharing any message received or giving someone else your log in details is a disciplinary offence.
Once proprietary information is shared outside the company’s control, it’s effectively social media. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, even PPRuNe can be accessed by anyone able to create an account. Even if you restrict your posts to friends or approved followers, there is no control over over them being passed onto third parties.
A flight attendant might take a picture of a pilot sleeping in the flight deck and post it to a company cabin crew WhatsApp group, another member thinks it’s funny and shares it on Facebook, her younger brother then shares it with his school mates, eventually it’s in a newspaper. The picture is traced back because another flight attendant informs her manager about the original WhatsApp post. The girl who took the picture gets fired.
Most companies have rules for social media and its best to follow them if you want to keep your job.
Once proprietary information is shared outside the company’s control, it’s effectively social media. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, even PPRuNe can be accessed by anyone able to create an account. Even if you restrict your posts to friends or approved followers, there is no control over over them being passed onto third parties.
A flight attendant might take a picture of a pilot sleeping in the flight deck and post it to a company cabin crew WhatsApp group, another member thinks it’s funny and shares it on Facebook, her younger brother then shares it with his school mates, eventually it’s in a newspaper. The picture is traced back because another flight attendant informs her manager about the original WhatsApp post. The girl who took the picture gets fired.
Most companies have rules for social media and its best to follow them if you want to keep your job.
Sure, but if I send a group of friends a personal email (not company email, not company email address, not proprietary company information) saying I’m not feeling well mentally, that’s not “social media” and I don’t see how sending a group message via a messaging app is either. What if I just write a hand written note, photocopy it, and send it to the same people, is that “social media”?
I will endeavour to follow company rules on social media but that doesn’t stop me thinking some of them are stupid.
I will endeavour to follow company rules on social media but that doesn’t stop me thinking some of them are stupid.
If you had information that another one of your company's pilots mental state was disturbed and he was talking about suicide, would you feel compelled to inform yout chief pilot or not ?
Not at first. My first step would be to get them to seek appropriate counselling. If that didn’t work then yes I’d have to inform the company. What does this have to do with whether a Whats App group is social media or not?
The key point is that he reached out to someone, whether it’s friends or a professional doesn’t matter provided he gets the help he needs.
By the way, a hard copy photo can also be spread and end up in the public domain. It’s not actually “social media” that is the problem, sharing any compromising information, in any form, to anyone, removes control from you and is a risk. Social media just happens to be a convenient method for sharing and many people have little understanding of the privacy or otherwise of their social media accounts.
The key point is that he reached out to someone, whether it’s friends or a professional doesn’t matter provided he gets the help he needs.
By the way, a hard copy photo can also be spread and end up in the public domain. It’s not actually “social media” that is the problem, sharing any compromising information, in any form, to anyone, removes control from you and is a risk. Social media just happens to be a convenient method for sharing and many people have little understanding of the privacy or otherwise of their social media accounts.
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All it takes is one person to take a picture of a message you sent (by whatever means that was) and then send that picture to someone else. It’s very simple, before posting any message by whatever means, think about the implications for your company if the general public becoming aware of it. If you bring your company’s image into disrepute, damage or harm, then chances are you’ll get fired. You may even find your own career has come to an end.
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WhatsApp is not “social media” like Twitter or Facebook which may be received by many others, it is a one to one encrypted message. So it must have been the intended recipient who informed the airline, and in my opinion quite rightly. There is actually quite a large section of the population that have suicidal thoughts but not many have the means to do it readily available.
For a firearms licence in the U.K. your mental health is checked not just by your GP but your family as well, because you have the means commit suicide or kill others, I see no reason that the same standards should not apply to airline pilots, an employer that has any negative evidence simply must take action, it’s tough on the individual but there is life after airline pilot.
For a firearms licence in the U.K. your mental health is checked not just by your GP but your family as well, because you have the means commit suicide or kill others, I see no reason that the same standards should not apply to airline pilots, an employer that has any negative evidence simply must take action, it’s tough on the individual but there is life after airline pilot.