Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

328 Support Services set to resume Do328 assembly

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

328 Support Services set to resume Do328 assembly

Old 22nd Aug 2019, 09:54
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 628
328 Support Services set to resume Do328 assembly

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/n...do328-assembly

fjencl is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2019, 10:30
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Surrounded by aluminum, and the great outdoors
Posts: 3,788
why???????
ironbutt57 is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2019, 10:50
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Wolverhampton
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by ironbutt57 View Post
why???????
More to the point - why not?
sixchannel is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2019, 11:26
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Amantido
Posts: 210
Simple: they reckon there's a business case for it.
Banana Joe is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2019, 12:39
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: The Midlands
Age: 35
Posts: 173
I would suggest there is a market for such an aircraft especially if it is London City capable. Nothing has really managed to replace the BAe 146 in that respect.
diffident is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2019, 12:59
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 98
The article is poorly written and illustrated by the wrong aircraft.

They have made very clear at the press gathering yesterday that they have no intention to resume production of the jet variant ("burns too much fuel"). Another key piece of information missing in the article is that the new D328 is stretched to 39 seats, with PW127 replacing the PW119 and a bunch of other updates to the systems.

Sources for above info:
https://www.aerotelegraph.com/dornie...328neu-heissen
https://www.aero.de/news-32349/Comeb...rnier-328.html
http://www.airliners.de/d328neu-ober...-leipzig/51495

Last edited by Machdiamond; 25th Aug 2019 at 16:12. Reason: Added links to public domain sources
Machdiamond is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2019, 14:46
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 11,275
Originally Posted by diffident View Post
I would suggest there is a market for such an aircraft especially if it is London City capable. Nothing has really managed to replace the BAe 146 in that respect.
Even if a new 328 were stretched (which is by no means certain) it would still have fewer than 50 seats, so we're not looking at a 146/RJ replacement. A few years ago it might have been attractive to Fokker 50 operators as a replacement.
DaveReidUK is online now  
Old 22nd Aug 2019, 14:50
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Munich, Germany
Age: 76
Posts: 89
Originally Posted by Banana Joe View Post
Simple: they reckon there's a business case for it.
Business case in this case means collection of subsidies. This was the first thing coming to my mind when reading that the owners of SNC are two Turkish brothers who live in the U.S.. The Oberpfaffenhofen facilities are still functional, if there was a genuine interest in revitalising Dornier, Oberpfaffenhofen would have been the place to go. There would be no problem hiring skilled labour, even my neighbour Max, who was working on the 228 production line, would be able to re-join. The whole deal stinks. Abuse of tax payer´s money ( subsidies ) is the only intention.
BEA 71 is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2019, 16:04
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: the hills of halton
Age: 67
Posts: 776
I had a pleasant flight as SLF in a Saab from Sumburgh to Glasgow. I am sure if Saab ceased production there is not that great a demand for this size aircraft .


An old report but probably still factual
https://commons.erau.edu/cgi/viewcon...xt=publication

Last edited by widgeon; 22nd Aug 2019 at 16:12. Reason: add link
widgeon is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2019, 21:33
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cantberra
Posts: 63
Originally Posted by widgeon View Post
I had a pleasant flight as SLF in a Saab from Sumburgh to Glasgow. I am sure if Saab ceased production there is not that great a demand for this size aircraft.
in Australia, Rex currently has a fleet of 50-60 Saabs, many of which are now 25-30 years old. There are also numerous other smaller Saab and Braz operators who have been able to make routes work with tired 30 seat aircraft which would not necessarily be profitable with a larger replacement like the ATR42.
Cleared Visual is online now  
Old 23rd Aug 2019, 17:45
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 124
Originally Posted by BEA 71 View Post
Business case in this case means collection of subsidies. This was the first thing coming to my mind when reading that the owners of SNC are two Turkish brothers who live in the U.S.. The Oberpfaffenhofen facilities are still functional, if there was a genuine interest in revitalising Dornier, Oberpfaffenhofen would have been the place to go. There would be no problem hiring skilled labour, even my neighbour Max, who was working on the 228 production line, would be able to re-join. The whole deal stinks. Abuse of tax payer´s money ( subsidies ) is the only intention.
That sounds about right, the German government will be more than happy to throw money at them to set up a factory in LEJ.
Look at the DHL facilities for example, I'm pretty sure most if not all of it was paid for by the German taxpayer.
Webby737 is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2019, 07:25
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: attitude is nominal
Posts: 727
Oberpfaffenhofen belongs to RUAG from Switzerland. They do different stuff down there these days.
Less Hair is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2019, 07:58
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 19
The 328 was a great turbo-prop which knocked spots off most of its rivals back in the 90’s regarding operational performance. It is a shame that it did not have a greater uptake. I guess it all comes down to cost in the end, as no matter how much the operations teams may love an aircraft, if the cost of purchase and ongoing ownership don’t stack up, there will be no market. With the press releases seemingly vague about seating capacity and powerplant choice, I wonder if they are exploring new technologies. A hybrid electric Do328??? Now that might attract some interest!
Captain Cautious is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2019, 08:33
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,034
Originally Posted by Webby737 View Post
That sounds about right, the German government will be more than happy to throw money at them to set up a factory in LEJ.
Look at the DHL facilities for example, I'm pretty sure most if not all of it was paid for by the German taxpayer.
The difference is DHL is making money, paying taxes and creates at lot of workplaces in LEJ. This Do328 project is dead in a water, no one needs it.
CargoOne is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2019, 08:36
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Munich, Germany
Age: 76
Posts: 89
Originally Posted by Captain Cautious View Post
The 328 was a great turbo-prop which knocked spots off most of its rivals back in the 90’s regarding operational performance. It is a shame that it did not have a greater uptake. I guess it all comes down to cost in the end, as no matter how much the operations teams may love an aircraft, if the cost of purchase and ongoing ownership don’t stack up, there will be no market. With the press releases seemingly vague about seating capacity and powerplant choice, I wonder if they are exploring new technologies. A hybrid electric Do328??? Now that might attract some interest!
From all I know the 328 was technically well ahead of its time. But it was expensive. While Canadian and Brazilian manufacturers were given support by their governments ( to get the price right ), Dornier did not have this priviledge. I remember well the statement by the then Socialist government " aviation is not on our priority list ". This was their answer to a request to support the aircraft financially. Your statement, Captain Cautious, says it all, when it comes down to cost, there is no market.

RUAG does have a facility at Oberpfaffenhofen, they do not own the airfield. They do maintenance, and other services. From what I read, they plan to build the 228
again.
BEA 71 is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2019, 17:41
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 124
Originally Posted by CargoOne View Post
The difference is DHL is making money, paying taxes and creates at lot of workplaces in LEJ. This Do328 project is dead in a water, no one needs it.
Quite true, but that's never stopped politicians throwing money at dead end business ventures in the past !
Webby737 is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2019, 11:04
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: 60 north
Age: 55
Posts: 15
Depends!

I will not comment on the money, as no aircraft the last say 70 years has ever got airborne without some state or province subsidy.
The 328 is a great aircraft.
From a pilots and a pax view.
OBI had a plan of stretching the Jet to 44 pax. All the plans are there.
It all got handed to the Israels at one point, when OBI got busy on the 728.
Anyway.
The original Jet was certified in July 1999 and it was Tac4 if I recall correct , Turboprop Test aircraft Nr 4 from the 1993 test. I was told.
Hainz and I and Nils and Kase were the first 4 to be trained on the new 328Jet that summer of 1999.
The brilliant test team did a great job and we had some major fun.
All on the aircraft, no sim, it later came to Schreiner in the old Fokker Training center in Hoofddorp AMS.

The main problem with the Jet was that it only did FL310, there was a mod for FL350, but I am not sure how many used that.
Obviously the fuelburn suffers from such a low cruise altitude.
Also maxing out at 300kt/ .66 is an issue. May be expanded a bit with a longer fuselage ?
BUT, let me quote Test Pilot Angerer on that.
" I took it to M. 76, and I am NEVER going there again!!"
A long and rather interesting explanation on pitch stability followed!

The main problem with the jet was the lack of reversers on the engines on wet and contaminated runway as it had a wopping great residual idle thrust.
So.
With new engines with reveres , FL350, 44 seat and a smidge faster , otherwise the same performance it will for sure have a niche to fill.

The Turboprop:
It was supposed to do 350kts, never did. Fastest In ever flew was doing 321, most petered out at 316kts.
Otherwise the 328 was Fantastic, in 1996!
1050 meters at Sørstokken International, never a problem with performance!
God we hat fun!
Then there was Castres Orly and Chambery Orly!
Dude we were hot!!
60 knots tailwind on a 4.7degree glide rwy 18 into Chambery is my record! Got bumpy over the hill mind You.
But that was a solid damd aircraft , I tell you!
So ,back to the Future:
The MAIN problem with the 328 is the xwind limit.
So if a stretch can up that with say 5 kts we have a future in a new launch!
The fact is that as per today there is a lack of modern turboprop aircraft in production.
So ANY new or modified 30 to 80 seat is welcome.
Not saying the 328 will ever take over the Dash 8 or the ATR routes, but as the 737 Max debacle has shown , we need options!
Hope this did not bore You to much.

Greetings to all Dornier Pilots fare and wide.

Regards
Cpt B
BluSdUp is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2019, 22:22
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,034
So ANY new or modified 30 to 80 seat is welcome.
Industry has made a choice and it is ATR72. Everything else is no longer relevant except smaller dashes for specific ops and ATR42 for performance issues. There was a hype around Q400 but this aircraft is now dead, no new orders, everyone is dreaming to get rid of it.

Saab has managed to build 450 units around the same years and still went out of production and existing in-service fleet was sharply declining over last 10 years. Half of Do328 are in storage. So who needs another 30-seater? Why don’t they just take 340B or 328-100 which are available on every corner and cheap? There are no newer engines in this class offering anything like Pratt GTF over the previous generation. Wild dreams...

ps I remember one 328JET achievement... BAE146 was relieved of reputation being the slowest jet in the world once 328JET came to the market
CargoOne is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2019, 01:01
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Here and there
Posts: 2,813
BAe146 also only FL310 with most RJs going to FL350.

I am am amused that, according to BluSdUp, the 328jet had at least three main problems. Each of them substantial.
AerocatS2A is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2019, 09:44
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Munich, Germany
Age: 76
Posts: 89


Thank you, Cpt. B. Saw these two birds resting at the Dornier Museum at Friedrichshafen in May.

Brgds

BEA 71
BEA 71 is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.