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Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

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Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Old 1st Jun 2020, 17:29
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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It was an old 727 technique like the double rotation where you lift the nose, pause and lift off and then rapidly pull to get the plane up above obstacle height. I know you've been in training for a lot of years and have seen many of these 'tricks' taught in the past.

Push the nose over in the flare with a 757 and you'll get pictures of the fuselage wrinkles on social media.

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Old 1st Jun 2020, 18:48
  #102 (permalink)  
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I think that applies to most any airplane! I've never flown a jetliner, do any of them have a recommended procedure in the flight manual for pushing nose down during the last phases of landing?
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Old 1st Jun 2020, 19:52
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The term is 'derotation" and while it may be discussed, it's pretty hard to demonstrate in a simulator. It's not a matter of "pushing the nose down" so much as easing the nose down. I think one of the previous posters referenced the 727, and yes you could get maybe a foot or so off the TD point and relax a "little" back pressure. Sometimes that would work, other times, not so much. Pilots just by the nature of the profession like to analyze and promote their own techniques, while the manufacture tries his best to avoid teaching "techniques". Trouble is that its still taught by those pesky pilots.

This could really up your day in the MD11 as the spoilers deployed in 2 stages, First with the MLG touch down and second with the nose gear touch down. (This logic may have been changed after a few years in service). At any rate there could be a dramatic pitch up if these two events happened in rapid succession to the point of a tail strike.
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Old 2nd Jun 2020, 01:14
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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Got it right - and fortunately never got it wrong ! - occasionally on the 747, very gentle easing of the back pressure could "roll" the front bogeys of the main undercarriage on to the concrete to achieve an almost imperceptible touchdown. Then one worked on "being kind to the nosewheel:" The autoland took no notice of any of this, just plonked it down with a low RoD.
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 09:42
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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Oh man I didn't realize my answer to a respondent,'s question would be so contraversial!
I never mentioned anything about pushing the nose down during the flare. Performing the Boeing Push isn't scary or adventurous and it's been around since the 720s as prototypical jet for the 707s. If a pilot doesn't feel comfortable with it then don't do it...and because I'm no longer a line pilot but an tenured engineering professor nobody needs to worry about PA doing the Boeing Push on the 757. Thank God for that

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Old 8th Jun 2020, 13:45
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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The "Boeing push"? More Voodoo flying stuff. Never heard of it or saw it in any 707/720.

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Old 8th Jun 2020, 14:36
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-93068.html
from 411A who sadly has passed. Third post in I think
I'm actually stunned that so few Boeing pilots have heard of the Boeing Push.
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 19:44
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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This closing statement pretty much sums it up as well are not all created as Sky Gods as much as we wish we were

"Required a definate technique for manual flying.
As some found out, the Boeing 'push' did not work"
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 22:12
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The Boeing push is a technique that could be used to great effect on the 757 and the 767. It also works well with the A321 and 330, but it’s not a ‘day to day every time it works technique’. It’s only for when the aircraft doesn’t kiss the tarmac during a regular landing due to miss timing during the flare when flaring too early or too much. It wasn’t something one did on a DC10.
In essence, you flare but the main gear levels off slightly above the runway. As the aircraft slows and begins to settle, as it begins to sink towards terra firma, a slight forward push will help pick the gear up as the aircraft settles downwards, generally leading to a smooth touch down.
It goes without saying, that pushing forward too far, may have unintended consequences.
Its more of a bit of ‘fettling’ with the elevator during the flare rather than a definitive prescribed technique for each and every landing.
First time I saw it done, it frightened the life out of me. Eventually I was teaching it myself.
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 01:55
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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I was simply told almost verbatim..." If you're gonna get an arrival just give her the Old Boeing Push and you can just drag her on in".


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Old 10th Jun 2020, 21:49
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Spooky 2
The "Boeing push"? More Voodoo flying stuff. Never heard of it or saw it in any 707/720.
How old are you? That was the technique on this side of the pond, since, forever. I flew the -100, QC, -200 way back when.
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 02:04
  #112 (permalink)  
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Is the "Boeing push" described in the flight manual, or any training material?
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 07:35
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Pilot DAR, the long and short of it is no. Not in AFM/FCOM or in the FCTM

Last edited by Pugilistic Animus; 11th Jun 2020 at 15:48. Reason: A comma, trying to improve my PPRuNe grammar and punctuation
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 08:26
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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Used it many times in the 727, Never in the 757/767. They both land nicely anyway, I don’t see any reason for a push.
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 14:01
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Pugilistic Animus

Delete. My error.
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 19:17
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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Push? More like easing on the back pressure while maintaining a positive pitch attitude. With a positive pitch attitude you can't land with the nose wheels touching down first. The guys that push often get to sit at a table and everyone has a glass of water except them. Lots of weird 727 landing techniques...none of them necessary. It flies, and lands, like an airplane.
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Old 12th Jun 2020, 15:41
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Well at least someone has been paying attention
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Old 12th Jun 2020, 22:04
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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I’ve heard it described as the Boeing ‘nudge’. Have seen it on the 737 used quite nicely. Definitely not a push, And definitely not in the FCTM
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