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Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

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Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Old 20th Aug 2019, 13:41
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL


This was repaired.
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Old 20th Aug 2019, 14:01
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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That happens when you want to avoid a statistical “hull loss” at any cost.
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Old 20th Aug 2019, 14:38
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Charlie_Fox View Post

This was repaired.
I’d guess that it’s an easier repair then damage around the nose gear which might take more force on every landing.
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Old 20th Aug 2019, 14:57
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Charlie_Fox View Post

This was repaired.
MX mishap.
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Old 20th Aug 2019, 15:14
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Pressurise her and see if the wrinkles pop out.
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Old 20th Aug 2019, 15:17
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Originally Posted by EDLB View Post
Pressurise her and see if the wrinkles pop out.
Like re-nflating an old party balloon you mean?
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Old 20th Aug 2019, 16:34
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How hard a landing did it take to put the wrinkles in the human brain?

Last edited by Slow and curious; 20th Aug 2019 at 17:13.
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Old 20th Aug 2019, 17:19
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by misd-agin View Post
I’d guess that it’s an easier repair then damage around the nose gear which might take more force on every landing.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's the creasing in the wing that's the deciding factor in this instance.

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Old 20th Aug 2019, 22:08
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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DaveReidUK, the photo you mention showing damage to the wing is I suspect, the top of the fuselage. You can see the rotating beacon.
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Old 20th Aug 2019, 23:34
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That looks like a lot of work; most of the damage is not visible. I don't know planes, but if this were a boat I would say that you have at least four compromised bulkheads and a whole bunch of stringers that need to be replaced. The big problem is going to be doing this with all of the wiring bundles in place, you can get it all back together and spend a year chasing gremlins caused by wires damaged in the repair process. Of course, in your world you can't simply tow a plane back to harbor when the electrical system fails.

I recall that many years ago a certain type of wiring insulation was used that degraded after X number of years, and a lot of planes became uneconomical to repair.
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Old 20th Aug 2019, 23:41
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Capt Fathom View Post
DaveReidUK, the photo you mention showing damage to the wing is I suspect, the top of the fuselage. You can see the rotating beacon.
Yes, you could be right, although I suspect it won't make a lot of difference to the (un)economics of repairing the damage.

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Old 21st Aug 2019, 06:35
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Flight tracking shows a straight in visual on RWY 12 (Nav Portugal doesnt publish any IAP chart for RWY 12 I can find). I haven't operated into there but have paxed in. Looks like 2 pilot WOCL operation - left JFK at 11:51pm.
Wind was 040/12 so wind off the (lowish) hills to the NE - so no where near as exciting as Funchal. PDL is home to wide body ops of Azores Airlines (SATA) with regular flights to FRA, BOS etc so it's not the backwoods.
Açores are a seriously beautiful place if you get the chance to visit.
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 07:40
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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I’ve got about 4500 hours PIC in the 757. I wouldn’t be surprised if they dropped the nose on after touchdown. If you got into full reverse without “flying” the nose down gently it will slam on. I always had my hands right by the yoke all the way through the derotatation when the F/O was flying and saved a few slammers over the years.

Best technique is to open the reversers on landing but don’t go above idle until the nose was down. Also had the nose pop up once on a landing by the other guy as well. To this day I still am not totally sure what caused that other than the spoilers deploying with the nose up during touchdown.


Last edited by Pilot DAR; 21st Aug 2019 at 23:50. Reason: typo
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 11:34
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cactusbusdrvr View Post
I’ve got about 4500 hours PIC in the 757. I wouldn’t be surprised if they dropped the nose on after touchdown. If you got into full reverse without “flying” the nose down gently it will slam on. I always had my hands right by the yoke all the way through the derotatation when the F/O was flying and saved a few slammers over the years.

Best technique is to open the reversers on landing but don’t go above idle until the nose was down. Also had the nose pop up once on a landing by the other guy as well. To this day I still am not totally sure what caused that other than the spoilers deploying with the nose up during touchdown.

Thanks for the input cactusbusdrvr. The B757 seems to feature in a few of these events...although I'm only thinking of this one and UA627 at Newark. Not being a PP, is it a design issue or something specific about the B757 that gives it a propensity to do this if not 'flown on' correctly? I mean this applies to all aircraft but I just seem to be aware of more B757's suffering this kind of hard landing damage, and your post seems to suggest a need to be wary with this bird. It's not as though you would be able to avoid some deliberately tough encounters with the runaway at times like in this example.

Those guys had their work cut out for them and the nose seemed to have been derotated fairly quickly, even before the reversers had any effect, no doubt to get some much needed nosewheel steering. But it wouldn't take much for that to have been a lot harder given some unfavorable shear. I guess I'm asking, is it something you worry about in the B757 that you might not worry so much about in say a B777? Or is this just pilot technique/bad day at the office/weather related issue for which the B757 is no more likely to suffer this damage than any other similar type? Apologies in advance for the clumsy question.

Last edited by Pilot DAR; 21st Aug 2019 at 23:50. Reason: typo
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 14:05
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Similar event at Funchal with Air Europe 757

There was a similar albeit less damage caused incident at Funchal in the 80's. I think that aircraft was repaired on site by Boeing people to a standard where it was flown back to Seattle for fixing.
You may recall AE subbed a couple of Nationair DC8's based at MAN and LGW. Brakedwell may be along to comment..........

GGR
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 14:43
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Wasn’t there also one earlier this year in one of NYC airports?
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 15:17
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mike_UEM View Post
Wasn’t there also one earlier this year in one of NYC airports?
Yes, United Airlines at EWR
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 23:49
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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The 757 was designed for NY-Miami and the old BEA system (which still existed in BA). As a political project, it was intended to enlist RR and the US-worshipping ends of the Civil Service to drag BAe out of Airbus and into partnership with Boeing. As it happened, RR and P&W beat the snot out of one another coming up with the perfect 757 engine, while GE bailed out and (with Snecma) proceeded to dominate the single-aisle market.

Uncompetitive for most domestic US flights, the 757 was the nastiest way to cross the Pond until the sadists invented the nine-abreast 787 - on a hot day, long-range cruise was the only way to get there and ground speed westbound could be in the low 400s, easily. Not to mention the horrible -300, which shook like a wet dog in crosswinds.

The sooner they're all turned into aircraft-grade aluminum rollaboard frames, the better.
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Old 22nd Aug 2019, 00:57
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LowObservable View Post
The 757 was designed for NY-Miami and the old BEA system (which still existed in BA). As a political project, it was intended to enlist RR and the US-worshipping ends of the Civil Service to drag BAe out of Airbus and into partnership with Boeing. As it happened, RR and P&W beat the snot out of one another coming up with the perfect 757 engine, while GE bailed out and (with Snecma) proceeded to dominate the single-aisle market.

Uncompetitive for most domestic US flights, the 757 was the nastiest way to cross the Pond until the sadists invented the nine-abreast 787 - on a hot day, long-range cruise was the only way to get there and ground speed westbound could be in the low 400s, easily. Not to mention the horrible -300, which shook like a wet dog in crosswinds.

The sooner they're all turned into aircraft-grade aluminum rollaboard frames, the better.
I'm sure you would enjoy travelling across the pond nowadays on the A-320 family narrowbodies since they are not so politically incorrect as that "horrible" 757, or any other horrible American product...

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Old 22nd Aug 2019, 01:04
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ironbutt57 View Post
I'm sure you would enjoy travelling across the pond nowadays on the A-320 family narrowbodies since they are not so politically incorrect as that "horrible" 757, or any other horrible American product...
well said old chap, well said.
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