Ryanair UK pilots vote for strike
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People will be getting bored of this but I’ll say it one last time and leave the thread to get back to the actual title.
I was sat sat next to people who were about to be unfairly dismissed. And I have been a witness in employment tribunals.
If you are sacked for taking part in a correctly organised trade union dispute (whether that is strike or action short of strike) then that is unfair dismissal.
However your recourse is exactly the same whether you are sacked for striking or you are sacked for any other unfair reason. Just because the strike is legal doesn’t mean you can’t be unlawfully dismissed.
Your former employer will just suck up the “fine” and move on.
It really isn’t hard to understand. Anyone can be sacked. It’s up to an employment tribunal to sort out the details much much later.
I was sat sat next to people who were about to be unfairly dismissed. And I have been a witness in employment tribunals.
If you are sacked for taking part in a correctly organised trade union dispute (whether that is strike or action short of strike) then that is unfair dismissal.
However your recourse is exactly the same whether you are sacked for striking or you are sacked for any other unfair reason. Just because the strike is legal doesn’t mean you can’t be unlawfully dismissed.
Your former employer will just suck up the “fine” and move on.
It really isn’t hard to understand. Anyone can be sacked. It’s up to an employment tribunal to sort out the details much much later.
Ryanair specifically but not in the UK. A very good friend of mine was wrapped up in that one. Not “officially” sacked for industrial action but a nice way around it.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/travel/news...based-13753804
UK but not aviation. And this isn’t even looking through employment tribunal records. This is just ones that made the press. Stop being so naive.
https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/cl...p-pay-protest/
https://www.mirror.co.uk/travel/news...based-13753804
UK but not aviation. And this isn’t even looking through employment tribunal records. This is just ones that made the press. Stop being so naive.
https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/cl...p-pay-protest/
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Ryanair specifically but not in the UK. A very good friend of mine was wrapped up in that one. Not “officially” sacked for industrial action but a nice way around it.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/travel/news...based-13753804
UK but not aviation. And this isn’t even looking through employment tribunal records. This is just ones that made the press. Stop being so naive.
https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/cl...p-pay-protest/
https://www.mirror.co.uk/travel/news...based-13753804
UK but not aviation. And this isn’t even looking through employment tribunal records. This is just ones that made the press. Stop being so naive.
https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/cl...p-pay-protest/
Signing off bravely,
Boeing 7E7
I didn't say don't go on strike. I was pointing out that the following 2 dogmatic statements were both wrong. Employees have been unlawfully dismissed by airlines in the UK, striking workers have been unlawfully dismissed in the UK and the costs are very much capped.
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Of course any well run strike will not be called off before anyone dismissed is reinstated. This is not a new battle, the tactics and counter tactics are well know and understood by both the employer and the union. If it was that easy industrial action would not be the very powerful tool that it is.
Dismissal for taking part in properly organised strike action, excepting in long term action, is automatically unfair:
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/wo...issal-is-fair/
The employer though does not commit a criminal offence even if they knowingly dismiss for reasons that are automatically unfair. The dismissed employee's remedy is to make a claim to an Employment Tribunal. As has already been pointed out there is a maximum award the tribunal can make. Going to a Tribunal isn't an easy option, the form filling and procedure can be onerous, more so if the respondent employer and their lawyers choose to make it so. There's also a strict time limit. Then there's a day in court with a Judge etc to be faced. Furthermore there were, until the Supreme Court ruled them unlawful, extensive and costly fees.
The effect is that the 'go to law' option is anything but a level playing field. The claimant is prone to being picked off with a settlement (usually with confidentiality clauses) to save the Employer the embarrassment of an actual judgement.
As has been pointed out already even if the Tribunal makes a full award that''s chicken feed for the employer and probably a 'price worth paying' to pick of the ring leaders of even lawful industrial action.
It's arguable that Trade Unionism and Industrial Action in UK got out of hand in sixties/seventies. Legislation passed in the Thatcher era swung the balance too far the other way and succeeding governments, even those that were ostensibly Labour, had no appetite for a return to fairness and equality of arms.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/wo...issal-is-fair/
The employer though does not commit a criminal offence even if they knowingly dismiss for reasons that are automatically unfair. The dismissed employee's remedy is to make a claim to an Employment Tribunal. As has already been pointed out there is a maximum award the tribunal can make. Going to a Tribunal isn't an easy option, the form filling and procedure can be onerous, more so if the respondent employer and their lawyers choose to make it so. There's also a strict time limit. Then there's a day in court with a Judge etc to be faced. Furthermore there were, until the Supreme Court ruled them unlawful, extensive and costly fees.
The effect is that the 'go to law' option is anything but a level playing field. The claimant is prone to being picked off with a settlement (usually with confidentiality clauses) to save the Employer the embarrassment of an actual judgement.
As has been pointed out already even if the Tribunal makes a full award that''s chicken feed for the employer and probably a 'price worth paying' to pick of the ring leaders of even lawful industrial action.
It's arguable that Trade Unionism and Industrial Action in UK got out of hand in sixties/seventies. Legislation passed in the Thatcher era swung the balance too far the other way and succeeding governments, even those that were ostensibly Labour, had no appetite for a return to fairness and equality of arms.
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Ryanair loses court battle to block UK pilot strikes
I take it the judge was flying with them for the bank holiday weekend
Last edited by Pilot DAR; 21st Aug 2019 at 22:46. Reason: Use correct airline name
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49421426
Ryanair loses court battle to block UK pilot strikes
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Well done BALPA.
Guys and Gals piloting for Ryanair in the UK I wish you well in standing up to a bully; there is no other way. This is now the tough bit for you..... Having worked in the industry for over 30 years there has been a race to the bottom and it’s time to reverse the trend. Keep strong; I’m sure you know that every single airline pilot who has an inkling of how you are managed would support your cause.
Guys and Gals piloting for Ryanair in the UK I wish you well in standing up to a bully; there is no other way. This is now the tough bit for you..... Having worked in the industry for over 30 years there has been a race to the bottom and it’s time to reverse the trend. Keep strong; I’m sure you know that every single airline pilot who has an inkling of how you are managed would support your cause.
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I am surprised there is so little comment on this. A bit like the TCX strike Ryanair are saying how they will be operating all their flights, this is actually what you want - you don't really want to inconvenience your passengers, what you do want is to inconvenience the Company and this is exactly what is happening - operating these flights will be complicated and costing as these pilots are coming from Europe costing in overtime, positioning and Hotac.
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Actual terms and conditions
The Daily Mail is reporting that Ryan pilots get £175k per annum, and are demanding £375k per annum.
Can someone post here (and on the D.M.) the actual salaries, and the demands being made, because there is a huge amount of company disinformation out there. The company is making all pilots look greedy, and someone needs to counter this with real facts - because it looks bad for all of us.
Thanks.
Silver
Can someone post here (and on the D.M.) the actual salaries, and the demands being made, because there is a huge amount of company disinformation out there. The company is making all pilots look greedy, and someone needs to counter this with real facts - because it looks bad for all of us.
Thanks.
Silver
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£175k would probably make them the best paid pilots in the world and I very much doubt that Ryanair pay has moved on that much!
from the Express
that sounds much more likely and if the top is for a trainer then still pretty poor!
from the Express
According to salary tracking website PayScale, the salary of a commercial pilot fly a jet at the company varies from £40,000 to £105,000 per year.
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First Officers will see around 39K maximum.
Captains basic salary is about 88/90K and increases incrementally to a max of 142K at the very top for a line captain.
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"Captains basic salary is about 88/90K and increases incrementally to a max of 142K at the very top for a line captain."
That might be euros. For the UK top line captain is approx £127k total including allowances. Add about 13k for line trainer and around 17k ( I think) for TRE. Pension 8k. Leave system is a month off at company's discretion (usually over winter) plus 10 adhoc days. That's about it.
That might be euros. For the UK top line captain is approx £127k total including allowances. Add about 13k for line trainer and around 17k ( I think) for TRE. Pension 8k. Leave system is a month off at company's discretion (usually over winter) plus 10 adhoc days. That's about it.
Is there actually anyone on the picket line today? Not a single UK cancellation. Have the management pulled a blinder and managed to crew all the flights even with Ryanair BALPA pilots on strike, or have most bottled it and crossed the picket line to go to work? I sincerely hope not. This a massive chance to actually change things for the better.
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Is there actually anyone on the picket line today? Not a single UK cancellation. Have the management pulled a blinder and managed to crew all the flights even with Ryanair BALPA pilots on strike, or have most bottled it and crossed the picket line to go to work? I sincerely hope not. This a massive chance to actually change things for the better.
Fair point, but I feel that some disruption to the operation for customers is needed too. If the flights can be covered then MOL will be happy for them to keep striking for the long term. Yes it’s inconvenient for the company, but will be more inconvenient for the pilots who wont be getting paid on strike days. With families to support and bills to pay some wont be happy striking long term. It’s a massive game of who blinks first. So far MOL is winning.
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I suspect it will take about 3 strike days before Ryanair realise how much it is costing them, its not just the inconvenience but the cost - and if they are using pilots from their other bases how sustainable is that? It then becomes hard to operate the bases these guys should be working from.
In addition it was on morning TV how customers have been booking elsewhere because they are wary of flights not going so that is also going to hurt MOL.
Hold out guys, you WILL get there if you do!
In addition it was on morning TV how customers have been booking elsewhere because they are wary of flights not going so that is also going to hurt MOL.
Hold out guys, you WILL get there if you do!
