Ryanair UK pilots vote for strike

[Gove N.T.]

Originally Posted by the_stranger

But why blame the pilots and not management for letting it come this far? If a strike is the only option to be treated a little more humane, what do you expect?

A strike is a last resort, MOL and his cronies could have been just a little more thoughtful and the situation would never have been so bad.

surely by now most sensible people would realise what they’re getting in to when choosing to work for MoL and his ratshti company.
so I have no time for the management and little time for those who work for the company who complain about industrial relations.. I actively sought to tell my children not to fly with that company because of the cynical way the employees are treated. However, choosing a period in mid summer holiday season to strike is a cynical move too,
As to the report that pilots have families too which can’t travel in the holiday season raised by another contributor; my point about choice applies too. The pilot chooses to work for the company in full knowledge that they may be called to work during holiday seasons so has no legitimate right to whinge.
I don’t have a problem with strikes for legitimate reasons but it’s the “I reluctantly choose this period” load of old bull. That said, we just have to look at the other unions in the UK and Aus which cry crocodile tears.
my kids have cancelled and I will fight any fees they incur.

[bulldog89]

Strikes are effective when the potential damage to the company is high.
Nobody cares about a pilot strike in mid November.

If you want to avoid strikes in high season try to fly airlines with happy pilots (good luck with this...).

Added: In the EU striking to improve your working condition is a civil right, even if you knew about it when signing a contract. For some countries it is even written in the Constitutional Chart.

[the_stranger]

Originally Posted by Gove N.T.

surely by now most sensible people would realise what they’re getting in to when choosing to work for MoL and his ratshti company.
so I have no time for the management and little time for those who work for the company who complain about industrial relations.. I actively sought to tell my children not to fly with that company because of the cynical way the employees are treated. However, choosing a period in mid summer holiday season to strike is a cynical move too,
As to the report that pilots have families too which can’t travel in the holiday season raised by another contributor; my point about choice applies too. The pilot chooses to work for the company in full knowledge that they may be called to work during holiday seasons so has no legitimate right to whinge.
I don’t have a problem with strikes for legitimate reasons but it’s the “I reluctantly choose this period” load of old bull. That said, we just have to look at the other unions in the UK and Aus which cry crocodile tears.
my kids have cancelled and I will fight any fees they incur.

With this attitude, conditions for all workers will steadily decrease.
While you claim most employees might know what they are getting into, most that will be striking are not newbies.

They have been with the company for some time now and seen their conditions erode over time, laws broken and promisses ignored.
Being a pilot isn't a job hopping career. There are circumstances in which a pilot just can't easily leave and join another company.
Fighting for a humane treatment in your current company might be the only sensible option.
And the time to fight is now (or might have been last summer, I don't know), since a economic downturn is coming. Doing nothing guarantees a steady decline, which in turn influences the entire pilot community and sets an example for other (yours?) industry.

[old,not bold]

I know many ryanair pilots have have not had a summer holiday for years with their family to the companies broken leave system.

No strike is called to upset the public. People dont want to strike, its normally the last resort to a complete breakdown in relations.

Just catching up here...............what BS.

If you work in the leisure industry, which is where Ryanair, and BA to a lesser extent, sit fair and square, you don't get holidays when the customers have them. Get over it, or work in another industry, eg hauling freight.

Striking is a last resort to get your way regardless of the merits of your grievances, especially when those merits are pretty much invisible. Pious expressions of sorrow about the consequent suffering of the victims of strikes (aka customers who pay your salaries) are just nauseating. Strike if you must in a peak holiday period, so as to maximise the suffering of those customers as a bargaining tool, but spare us the crap about how you just hate doing it.

[bulldog89]

Given a strike in ANY industry the “victims” are the consumers, aka me and you.
Management can choose to block the strike negotiating or just deal with it threatening employees. So in the end the disruption is caused/avoided by a managerial decision.

Do you really think Ryan pilots are happy to strike in August just to get a single “free” day off (UNPAID)? Or maybe there are more serious reasons behind it?

Anyway, I’m now starting to understand why working conditions worldwide are going down to the toilet...

[pitotheat]

Why do people think paying more to park their car at the airport car park for a week than a ticket on a 2 hour flight with their partner is ok?
There is a heavy price being paid by those employed in the airline industry and it can not continue.
For UK workers to strike these days rightfully requires a legally high threshold and it can only happen after the breakdown of talks. Pilots are not generally a militant group and for them to be pushed to this action goes against their high level of care and responsibility they feel towards their passengers.
I wish the Ryanair and BA pilots and crew well in their efforts and to those passengers affected a sincere hope that their holiday plans are only temporarily delayed.

[beachbumflyer]

"Anyway, I’m now starting to understand why working conditions worldwide are going down to the toilet..."

And for years pilots haven't been doing much to stop it.

[Chronus]

Just so that this thing can be put into a proper perspective, what is the strike all about. Apologies if this has already been mentioned earlier in the posts.

[witchiepoo]

Originally Posted by beachbumflyer

"Anyway, I’m now starting to understand why working conditions worldwide are going down to the toilet..."

And for years pilots haven't been doing much to stop it.

A day late & a dollar short eh chaps?
This strike should have happened 10 years ago before the rot set in. Seems to me the pilots are walking into a company downsizing scheme rather than a strike...especially with the MAX being a non-starter. No point calling foul now, we got the heroes we deserved!

[DooblerChina]

Originally Posted by schweizer2

I'd say an amazing difference in attitude in an pilot strike vs the train drivers!

Train drivers are on strike every week... pilots very very rarely walk out.

[Boeing 7E7]

For heavens sake Ryanair pilots! You’re behaving like a load of young inexperienced in life, people. Oh wait....

You don’t need to justify to anyone why you need to strike. Let BALPA take care of that. Just support BALPA, go on strike, improve your terms and conditions and that of the industry and don’t worry about the self interested nay sayers. Many of whom have an agenda in posting here and are not simply ‘a poor member of the travelling public’ who’s holiday plans will be ruined... wake up!

[Tracey Watson]

Originally Posted by UAV689

a bit gung ho? From a management that will make up to 1b profit and not share any sucess with staff? That says there is nothing in the pot yet puts its ceo on a 100m bonus scheme and can find 700m to buy its own shares? From a management that has out right refused to put any offers or even acknowledge what the union lads have asked for?

This is a company that pays its direct entry staff more than existing long term staff, refuses to put in place a cla which means they can do whatever they want to you whenever they need.


Ryr pilots get paid less than they did 18yrs ago. Its a fact. Yet the company makes far more money.

it puts other airlines out of buisness, why? Because its costs are so low. The cost of fuel is fixed, the other cost is staff.

It is their company! Why should they have a gun to their head to share with the staff? If the staff don’t like the conditions they are of course free to leave.

Management salaries are too high but not obscenely high. Just imagine for a second taking that manager out and replacing him with captain joe bloggs, I can guarantee that 5 years down the line the company will be losing 1 billion a year as opposed to making it!

it is the management that makes the money (in most but not all cases) the staff are mostly replaceable and sorry to say it not special.

[Ranmore]

Hello "de fumo in flammam"

I note that you do not declare your experience level in dealing with, negotiating and navigating industrial matters from a union or airline management perspective.
I would be interested to hear how you arrive at your quite outspoken viewpoint - and what union/management experience you have benefitted from please.
Hindsight is a convenient quality that you seem to have in abundance to be fair.

I am a BALPA rep for another UK airline - and have been for a few years. It is fair to say that a number of years ago we very occasionally felt that BALPA sometimes fell a little short in terms of support. However - a new General Secretary together with implementation of diligent working practices and pro-active membership engagement has genuinely meant that BALPA has "upped it's game" significantly at every level.
I can personally assure you that the support and advice received by the CC I serve upon is very good indeed. I am also privileged to personally meet and engage with other fellow CC reps from the UK aviation industry - including RYR reps. We regularly meet to formally exchange views, ideas and concerns on all issues that effect our pilot community. I have never once heard from any of the other airlines CC reps that the level of support from BALPA is of any concern whatsoever.

Your location I see is in the US. Are you a BALPA member? Of course if you are a BALPA member - then I may suggest you contact them for detail as to where membership funds are spent or directed - then at least you will have information upon which you can factually post.
You appear to confidently state that you "know" that membership fees are spent on BALPA (employees) final salary pensions.
A bold yet sadly wholly inaccurate opinion that is regularly aired by those wishing to criticise the association.

Your comment that the "ill equipped CCs are boys in a game of men" is frankly discourteous and merely indicative of your embarrassing level of ignorance.

As a CC rep - my desire is to serve my fellow pilot colleagues to the very best of my ability with honesty and integrity. Please let me unequivocally state - that without BALPA's professional support then that task would be very difficult indeed.

Finally - I wish my fellow reps at RYR and at BA every success.

[Global_Global]

Agree support BALPA and vote with your feet... Such behaviour by MOL should be unacceptable. Even a company like Norwegian that is really having issues behaves better

[Chronus]

I asked what is the gripe all about, got no response. All that`s seems to be aired is company making pots of money, management doling it out generously to themselves , pilots not even getting the crumbs and stuff the travelling public who provides it all. Great industrial relations and great PR. Just blame BALPA and all those drunk morons will continue clapping after every out bound landing to their watering holes.

[racedo]

Originally Posted by Ranmore

I can personally assure you that the support and advice received by the CC I serve upon is very good indeed. I am also privileged to personally meet and engage with other fellow CC reps from the UK aviation industry - including RYR reps. We regularly meet to formally exchange views, ideas and concerns on all issues that effect our pilot community. I have never once heard from any of the other airlines CC reps that the level of support from BALPA is of any concern whatsoever.

Finally - I wish my fellow reps at RYR and at BA every success.

Now if Airline management met up like Union reps they would be investigated for operating in a cartel, using anti competitive practices against the interests of customers. The EU Dawn raid so to speak would follow.

Even the discussions of actions in another airline would come under this, which you seem to be suggesting is occuring.

As for not hearing from airline CC reps regarding level of support............. they have already bought in have they not, like Unite saying all our shop stewards are happy, that doesn't mean membership is.

[racedo]

Originally Posted by de fumo in flammam

Anyway, the Balpa DB pension scheme continues to run (at end 2017, albeit closed to new members), with pension costs soaking up a whopping £1.8m of the £6.3m membership revenue, almost as much as salaries, and three times as much as they spent on actually defending members - the bread and butter. Moreover, a £1.6m exceptional DB pension deficit provision was made, and further exceptional pension deficit costs are expected to be ongoing until 2025 (the introduction says £1m for 2017, not sure why there's a difference). It may all have changed since 2018 but not that I've heard, and not that I can find evidence of in a search.

They spent more on Travelling and Out of Pocket expenses £562k v Defending members £544k so everything is ok.

[Boeing 7E7]

Originally Posted by de fumo in flammam

Ranmore, check the BALPA annual accounts before directing abuse at me (FY2017 is the most recent one on their website, and while you're at it, actually read the newsletters too) - no, of course I'm not a member, and I have mostly retired. I have dealt with McCauslan(?) in the past, and I was shocked by the experience, swearing that they'd never get a penny of my money ever again. By all accounts, the BRCC reps are very sound guys, but they seemed maybe too swayed by various influences, not least by the Irish CC, and Balpa really should vet what gets issued under their title. "Boys" was a turn of phrase, not intentionally directed at the reps, but yes it was unintentionally derogatory, albeit seeming apt if you read the juvenile guff in the newsletters.

Anyway, the Balpa DB pension scheme continues to run in the accounts compiled Oct 2018 for FY2017 (and though closed to new members, it does seem to be open for further accrual - something even BA NAPSters lost some time ago), with pension costs soaking up a whopping £1.8m of the £6.3m membership revenue, almost as much as salaries, and three times as much as they spent on actually defending members - the bread and butter. Moreover, a £1.6m exceptional DB pension deficit provision was made, and further exceptional pension deficit costs are expected to be ongoing until 2025 (the introduction says £1m for 2017, not sure why there's a difference). It may all have changed since 2018 but not that I've heard, and not that I can find evidence of in a search. So otherwise, it does seem that a vast chunk of your membership dues end up in BALPAs pension pot.

And what has any of this got to do with a pilot strike at Ryanair? Nothing. Your motivations are obvious and your agenda is clear.

[UAV689]

Originally Posted by racedo

They spent more on Travelling and Out of Pocket expenses £562k v Defending members £544k so everything is ok.

and? Perhaps the spending they spent on reps going up and down the country stopped actions getting to court?

Utterly pointless comments

[BBJ-Captain]

And will Balpa actually help?

There are hundreds of contract pilots within Ryanair.
I presume that Balpa (as the recognised union within Ryanair) will insist on these ‘temporary contract’ pilots will be released from service before a single striking/Balpa member is given mandatory redundancy?!
I doubt it.
One thing I’ve learned about Balpa over the many years of membership is that they like to talk and shout and organise and incite action from the pilots, but when it comes down to it, they rarely elect to fight the battle themselves.
Its a standard given that you can’t keep ‘full time’ contractors on the books and have them working and flying, whilst making permanent staff redundant.

Personally I am glad for the girls’n’guys who will put their head above the parapet and actually strike. Unfortunately, Ryanair will target them and dismiss them. This is precisely why MOL made the press release stating that there will be job cuts. It’s an attempt to legitimise the dismissals, and the ‘zero hour’ Storm contracts will see the agency pilots sit out a month of flying (which they have to have off every year anyway in a thinly vailed attempt to try and convince the rest of the world’s tax authorities they aren’t permanent employees) to again try and validate the airlines downsizing.
Let’s just see what Balpa does the help them when the axe comes falling.

Finally, I wish all at easyjet the best from the Ryanair management ship jumping;
First there was WB
Old rostering manager - JB
Old DDFO - SC
Old DFO/COO - PB

easyJet’s ‘Orange Spirit’ will soon be blue and yellow!