BA422 smoke incident Valencia
Try and describe the smell as best you can (however ridiculous; like tangerines and diesel, etc) and the texture of the smoke; was it like steam, fog, dri-ice, etc.
I know you probably had a lot of other things on your mind at the time. Sorry you had this happen to you but I'm trying to nail down what it was.
Cheers.
Last edited by Auxtank; 7th Aug 2019 at 17:29.
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When I went through Airbus training (please keep in mind this was nearly 20 years ago - I've been out of the industry for a while) we were told this can happen if the cabin is still pressurized. We were to contact the flight deck to have them release the pressure then open the door. Does this still hold true?
Wonder if the skipper shouted to not open doors until ground Emergency Services has ascertained no external flames, etc?
There was a ground incident with SA a few years ago where the doors were kept Closed until external engine and wing fire had been extinguished.
Found it!
Interior pax shot footage begins at 1:09
There was a ground incident with SA a few years ago where the doors were kept Closed until external engine and wing fire had been extinguished.
Found it!
Interior pax shot footage begins at 1:09
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Can you tell us if you saw anyone with any breathing problems at all?
Try and describe the smell as best you can (however ridiculous; like tangerines and diesel, etc) and the texture of the smoke; was it like steam, fog, dri-ice, etc.
I know you probably had a lot of other things on your mind at the time. Sorry you had this happen to you but I'm trying to nail down what it was.
Cheers.
Try and describe the smell as best you can (however ridiculous; like tangerines and diesel, etc) and the texture of the smoke; was it like steam, fog, dri-ice, etc.
I know you probably had a lot of other things on your mind at the time. Sorry you had this happen to you but I'm trying to nail down what it was.
Cheers.
It was thick and it smelt like exhaust fumes. At first I thought it was condensation but it was much more fume like. It was thick fog like smoke that was slightly yellow and hard to see through. It was like smoke from a smoke machine at a gig. People weren’t having trouble breathing but it smelt chemically and you instinctively put a jumper over your mouth to block
it out.
It def wasn’t like bonfire smoke. And as soon as we were off the plane the smell was gone. Our clothes and hair didn’t continue to smell but my husband said his throat hurt. I tried to attach a picture but couldn’t get it to work !
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I have on good authority that a bearing disintegrated within the left engine on descent. This caused various eng stall warnings and lead to gaseous engine oil being leaked into the cabin. That is what would cause the 'itchy' throat.
If incident frequency were taken into account, smoke hoods with effective VOC filters should be at every seat - more so than life vests! I used to travel with an evac-u8 smoke hood (both when flying as pax commercially and crew on small aircraft). But they got recalled in 2006 for not providing effective CO protection. I never found a viable alternative. Probably something that should be looked into, considering the extreme health hazard imposed by vaporised lubricants.
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The pictures show incredibly dense white smoke typical of finely dispersed oil particles and very different from the sooty particles you get with fire. I have been through the same as an unaccompanied minor on a VC 10 on take off from BAH when a seal popped on one of the Conways. We landed in Dharan and it took all day to fix but the scary memory of the burning choking smell is still vivid 50 years later. I've done the smoke emergency training at B.A. and the smoke canisters they use at S.E.P. while they give the smoke effect, are really benign compared to this probably for elphinsafety reasons. Surprised the AC didn't appear to have been isolated as a checklist item (appreciate the crew had their hands full). I expect this will ignite the TCP debate again...
Last edited by Pinkman; 8th Aug 2019 at 04:27.
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I know that many of you still operate the Airbus can anyone tell us:
Is there an Emergency drill for Smoke/Fumes in the cabin? I assume that like most aircraft it is possible to depressurise the aircraft and isolate all sources of cabin conditioning?
As an interested passenger, there seem to be an increasing number of these incidents? I am aware that many go unreported. Interested in comment,
Earlier in this thread it was stated,
Is this true, are we stating the the chemical oxygen generator is not fit for purpose as it is likely to catch fire if used?
Is there an Emergency drill for Smoke/Fumes in the cabin? I assume that like most aircraft it is possible to depressurise the aircraft and isolate all sources of cabin conditioning?
As an interested passenger, there seem to be an increasing number of these incidents? I am aware that many go unreported. Interested in comment,
If incident frequency were taken into account, smoke hoods with effective VOC filters should be at every seat - more so than life vests!
The flight crew MUST be able to breathe clearly and for that they have positive pressure full face masks (looks like a firemans breathing aparatus or scuba if you're curious) as if they succumb to smoke, everyone dies. In the cabin, positive pressure masks are not practical, so they have a chemical oxygen generator. The chemical generator generates an incredible amount of heat and of course, oxygen (see ValuJet Flight 592 for details), and what fuels fires? If they generate more heat and more oxygen, they could easily worsen the situation - which is why it's not recommended. They are not pressurised masks, just supplementary oxygen that doesn't stop the user breathing in the external ambient smoke/fumes anyway.
Oxygen generators are not likely to catch fire if used/stowed/maintained/transported correctly. The valujet accident that was referred to was caused in part by some of that not being done properly.
The generators used on some types for passenger oxygen mask use are tucked away out of harms way, somewhere they shouldn't get kicked or tampered with, and and will be subject to regular checks. There are also usually a limited number of crew smoke hoods on an aircraft; they have dedicated stowages (often in a rigid box), the condition of which is usually checked by the crew every crew change.
There are however potential problems if you allow an unknown number of these things in the cabin, possibly buried at the bottom of bags, possibly having been subject to packing damage, been dropped by security, been squeezed into tight space etc...then the risks of fire do start to go up.
The authorities have done risk vs. gain analysis and decided there are advantages to having a known small number, controlled use chemical generators on the aircraft, but there are risks to having them being brought on in an uncontrolled manner and in unknown numbers.
TBH there are times where sometimes crew have to think outside the box for the sake of everybodies safety...if in their judgement wearing a smoke hood could have seriously hampered efforts to observe/communicate/lead/open doors/evacuate passengers I'd personally cut the cabin crew some slack, certainly until I'd seen a full report on what they were dealing with.
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No-where in the description is there any mention of the CC "wandering around". Is it really necessary to denigrate professionals who apparently performed well in order to make your point?
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Can anyone answer the following,
Is there an Emergency drill for Smoke/Fumes in the cabin? I assume that like most aircraft it is possible to depressurise the aircraft and isolate all sources of cabin conditioning?
I’m surprised you haven’t had a type specific answer but I’d hazard a guess there will be a type specific Smoke, Fumes, Fire Checklist..there will be one.
Whilst we are waiting generically they usually work through some form of fault finding, isolating in some sequence the likes of IFE, lighting, Galley electrics, A/C packs....If you are looking at needing into smoke removal then the checklist would probably demand a descent to a sensible altitude and then ventilation to the ambient atmosphere as appropriate and in a manner specific for the aircraft type, you wouldn’t ideally want to be depressurising at high level.
Fingers crossed someone will be along with the Airbus details shortly.
Whilst we are waiting generically they usually work through some form of fault finding, isolating in some sequence the likes of IFE, lighting, Galley electrics, A/C packs....If you are looking at needing into smoke removal then the checklist would probably demand a descent to a sensible altitude and then ventilation to the ambient atmosphere as appropriate and in a manner specific for the aircraft type, you wouldn’t ideally want to be depressurising at high level.
Fingers crossed someone will be along with the Airbus details shortly.
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Of course, this incident occurred at low altitude (below 10,000 ft) so it would have been possible to depressurise immediately if reacquired?
Used to teach, if Smoke and Fumes occur at cruise altitude - commence a rapid descent. Once below 25,000 ft O2 masks on and depressurise. Continue descent to 10,000 ft or below?
Are any of these numbers still taught?
Used to teach, if Smoke and Fumes occur at cruise altitude - commence a rapid descent. Once below 25,000 ft O2 masks on and depressurise. Continue descent to 10,000 ft or below?
Are any of these numbers still taught?
Boeing document but it may help..
Flight Crew Response to In-Flight Smoke Fire or Fumes
As others have said, dropping pax masks are generally a "no no" - they don't seal, so don't protect from fumes, and because they are constant flow they "leak" pure oxygen into a cabin where worse case you may have a fire.
Flight Crew Response to In-Flight Smoke Fire or Fumes
As others have said, dropping pax masks are generally a "no no" - they don't seal, so don't protect from fumes, and because they are constant flow they "leak" pure oxygen into a cabin where worse case you may have a fire.
Last edited by wiggy; 8th Aug 2019 at 14:44.
Mk 1 Airbus (A300) - Smoke or Fumes in Flight Deck - O2 masks ON, One Pack OFF. Then the rest of the check list.
If it is Air Conditioning causing the problem then there's a 50:50 chance that you have cured the problem with one simple action.
This was a few years ago.
.
If it is Air Conditioning causing the problem then there's a 50:50 chance that you have cured the problem with one simple action.
This was a few years ago.
.
6. The ground staff were ill equipped for the situation. We were brought into the terminal and had to explain why we didn’t have our passports …. We all sat on an empty baggage carousel for three hours … The liaison lady came in from home and just kept saying that they were securing the plane so we could get our bags … We were brought boxes of water when we complained that we were hot and thirsty and dehydrated.
Immigration officials displaying a complete "know nothing" of those coming in from a major aircraft evacuation on their own airfield is somewhat beyond belief, but that one has happened before as well.
I just hope that the Alex Cruz version of BA Due Diligence for handling agent selection covers all of this, and has not been reduced to a one liner "who is the cheapest".