Student jumps to their death
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: On cloud 9
Posts: 884
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If the pilot had put in a bit of firm left rudder while pushing a very mildly negative G together with taking the power off the prop (minimizing prop wash), she would have been straight back into the plane again, and the door could be closed without effort.
Likewise if he put in a bit of right rudder and pulled a slightly positive G and increased power a bit, it would be nearly impossible for her to get back into the plane.
This is very normal when flying skydivers, even if the door there is hinged on the top - principles work anyhow.
This story has a wrong stink to it.
Likewise if he put in a bit of right rudder and pulled a slightly positive G and increased power a bit, it would be nearly impossible for her to get back into the plane.
This is very normal when flying skydivers, even if the door there is hinged on the top - principles work anyhow.
This story has a wrong stink to it.
If the pilot had put in a bit of firm left rudder while pushing a very mildly negative G together with taking the power off the prop (minimizing prop wash), she would have been straight back into the plane again, and the door could be closed without effort.
Likewise if he put in a bit of right rudder and pulled a slightly positive G and increased power a bit, it would be nearly impossible for her to get back into the plane.
This is very normal when flying skydivers, even if the door there is hinged on the top - principles work anyhow.
This story has a wrong stink to it.
Likewise if he put in a bit of right rudder and pulled a slightly positive G and increased power a bit, it would be nearly impossible for her to get back into the plane.
This is very normal when flying skydivers, even if the door there is hinged on the top - principles work anyhow.
This story has a wrong stink to it.
It's happened before. It'll happen again.
I remember this particular story well. Similar aircraft.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/...rebeccaallison
"A decorated SAS veteran jumped out of an aircraft and fell 1,500 metres to his death, despite the desperate attempts of his co-pilot to stop him, an inquest was told yesterday.Judith Haig described how she tried in vain to hold on to her friend and business partner, Charles Bruce, when he unbuckled his seatbelt and opened the door of their Cessna 172 Skyhawk as they flew over Oxfordshire on January 8.
As Ms Haig grasped the waistband of his trousers with one hand and tried to control the aircraft with the other, Bruce, 45, pulled away and leapt out of the door, the inquest in Oxford heard."
RIP to both.
I am in no position to comment on the recent tragedy. I am an Ex PPL Cessna Pilot and have some limited "open door " experience, but also professionally trained not to comment on ongoing investigations . I did , however, have a weird experience some years ago whilst holidaying and doing some diving in Kenya. Not relevant , but odd nevertheless.
In between dives and other fun I was reading "Freefall", a complex autobiography written by an ex soldier , who had issues and was working up hopefully to do a world high altitude free fall record.
I put the book down as a local "ex Rhodie military" friend came up and told me that an old mate of his had just stepped out of a Cessna over the U..K. ,
As the names were different, the penny never dropped and I carried on reading "Freefall". It was some months before I realised that they were one and the same. individual, who had been writing under a nom de plume
In between dives and other fun I was reading "Freefall", a complex autobiography written by an ex soldier , who had issues and was working up hopefully to do a world high altitude free fall record.
I put the book down as a local "ex Rhodie military" friend came up and told me that an old mate of his had just stepped out of a Cessna over the U..K. ,
As the names were different, the penny never dropped and I carried on reading "Freefall". It was some months before I realised that they were one and the same. individual, who had been writing under a nom de plume
Yes, that is very believable. Larium can cause major psychotic events and should never be used by anyone with a history of mental problems.
Putting together the different press reports it seems clear than Ms Cutland's health was causing her family serious concern. Several of them suggest the other passenger was a friend or relative accompanying her back to a town or city where a doctor could consider whether she was OK to fly home and/or diagnose treat her condition. All of that seems to be exactly what might be expected if a young student had gone off the rails on a field trip to a remote part of the world.
While it's interesting to contemplate how the door might have opened sufficiently to allow her to fall I don't see any other plausible scenario then that she jumped. Any plot executed on board or anything involving dropping somebody already dead or critically injured would face exactly the same difficulties. It's also clear there have been similar incidents in the past.
While it's interesting to contemplate how the door might have opened sufficiently to allow her to fall I don't see any other plausible scenario then that she jumped. Any plot executed on board or anything involving dropping somebody already dead or critically injured would face exactly the same difficulties. It's also clear there have been similar incidents in the past.
Moderator
If the pilot had put in a bit of .....
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Paisley, Florida USA
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here are two links to stories about people jumping from airplanes (without parachute) to their deaths. The first story, concerning Christine Pascale, describes a troubled woman with mental problems similar to those suffered by the subject of this thread, Alana Cutland.
Just to add further to the speculation regarding this thread, I think that it would be possible that the pilot of Alana's plane, while reaching/stretching to his right to grab Alana, inadvertently pushed on the right rudder pedal, sending the plane into an unintended skidding right turn. This maneuver would have place the right side of the aircraft "in the lee" of the relative wind, making it easier to open the door. Try to mimic the pilot's body motion while sitting in a chair, or better yet, in the left front seat of a Cessna 182 (or similar). While seated and reaching or stretching to one's right, the geometry of the human body results in a slight extension of the right foot ... at least that's how this aging/aged wrinkled body responds to such motion.
https://www.fresnobee.com/news/natio...159590274.html
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/loc...le1957481.html
Grog
Just to add further to the speculation regarding this thread, I think that it would be possible that the pilot of Alana's plane, while reaching/stretching to his right to grab Alana, inadvertently pushed on the right rudder pedal, sending the plane into an unintended skidding right turn. This maneuver would have place the right side of the aircraft "in the lee" of the relative wind, making it easier to open the door. Try to mimic the pilot's body motion while sitting in a chair, or better yet, in the left front seat of a Cessna 182 (or similar). While seated and reaching or stretching to one's right, the geometry of the human body results in a slight extension of the right foot ... at least that's how this aging/aged wrinkled body responds to such motion.
https://www.fresnobee.com/news/natio...159590274.html
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/loc...le1957481.html
Grog
On the reverse, it would be very difficult for a pilot to get a person out through the door, if they did not want to go. A person would have to actively squirm out the door to get out. This sad story rings true to me.
A few years ago a Norwegian oil worker being flown onshore by helicopter from a platform, with some mental health issues, suddenly pushed out the pop out window next to him and jumped out at 2,500 ft. These events do happen and they are sudden and catch others by surprise.
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Brasil
Age: 42
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If the pilot had put in a bit of firm left rudder while pushing a very mildly negative G together with taking the power off the prop (minimizing prop wash), she would have been straight back into the plane again, and the door could be closed without effort.
Likewise if he put in a bit of right rudder and pulled a slightly positive G and increased power a bit, it would be nearly impossible for her to get back into the plane.
This is very normal when flying skydivers, even if the door there is hinged on the top - principles work anyhow.
This story has a wrong stink to it.
Likewise if he put in a bit of right rudder and pulled a slightly positive G and increased power a bit, it would be nearly impossible for her to get back into the plane.
This is very normal when flying skydivers, even if the door there is hinged on the top - principles work anyhow.
This story has a wrong stink to it.
We can assume that the max cruising speed of the aircrft would have been around 100 knts, at 3000ft there is a chance that the aircraft was still climbing, as such the speed could have been much lower. With everything inside your car secured and a seatbelt on, the force needed to open the door could be easily simulated on a highway/motorway.... Don't try this if your car door has a suicide hinge (Hinge at the rear of the door).
Last edited by JumpJumpJump; 3rd Aug 2019 at 17:01. Reason: SPAG
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: USofA
Posts: 1,235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hewlett Packard had a shuttle between San Jose, CA and Sacramento, CA back in the late 90's as I recall. They operated this with a Twin Otter. One of their female employees opend the pax door and jumped to her death. The Otter pax door drops down to create a boarding stair as I recall. I would imagine that the airstream pulled this door open quite rapidly. Tragic for those that watched this happen.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Canadian Shield
Posts: 538
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They are now saying anti malarial medication may have been a factor. Larium can have a pretty awful effect on some people, so I do wonder if that may be the case.
I too did have a PA-28 door pop open on me. Ironically on a FAA check-flight(!) Worn pins were the cause.
Still - I passed the check-ride. And never did get malaria!
What doesn’t kill kill you makes you stronger! 👍🏻
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Frome - where we do as Fromans do.
Age: 68
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I will add my name to the list of people who have found themselves having extremely disturbing reactions that have some connection with taking Larium. It is however curious that the literature I read around the time and after the event (A trip to Malawi about 20 years ago) did observe that the negative reactions reported by many Europeans was far higher by percentage than the negative reactions reported by North Americans.
This apparent anomaly was not effectively explained but there was some suggestion that many users were visiting severe third world conditions for the first time and that this emotional shock was considerably exacerbated by the chemical nature of the drug.
I certainly wouldn't claim to have ever been one of the worlds outstanding optimists and I was under some personal duress at the time of the trip but the depth of depression (I'm using that word as a shortcut to describe the effect) I experienced was quite severe enough for me to easily relate to the experience of this poor girl upon which this thread is based.
It was also apparent at the time that I was not alone in having such a negative reaction to the drug, the circumstances or both.
As it happened, I stopped taking the pills (taken than as a once a week tablet while there and for a couple of weeks before and then after the period of exposure) prematurely and soon after upon my eventual return to Australia, ended up coming very close to death being very reluctant to acknowledge that the un-wellness I was experiencing which turned out to be fulciparum malaria!
Needless to say, though the whole affair was a hugely difficult and disturbing experience, I have long since reflected back upon it with considerable pleasure and appreciation. There were some very bright moments within the darkness.
But I also do consider myself somewhat lucky to have survived...
This apparent anomaly was not effectively explained but there was some suggestion that many users were visiting severe third world conditions for the first time and that this emotional shock was considerably exacerbated by the chemical nature of the drug.
I certainly wouldn't claim to have ever been one of the worlds outstanding optimists and I was under some personal duress at the time of the trip but the depth of depression (I'm using that word as a shortcut to describe the effect) I experienced was quite severe enough for me to easily relate to the experience of this poor girl upon which this thread is based.
It was also apparent at the time that I was not alone in having such a negative reaction to the drug, the circumstances or both.
As it happened, I stopped taking the pills (taken than as a once a week tablet while there and for a couple of weeks before and then after the period of exposure) prematurely and soon after upon my eventual return to Australia, ended up coming very close to death being very reluctant to acknowledge that the un-wellness I was experiencing which turned out to be fulciparum malaria!
Needless to say, though the whole affair was a hugely difficult and disturbing experience, I have long since reflected back upon it with considerable pleasure and appreciation. There were some very bright moments within the darkness.
But I also do consider myself somewhat lucky to have survived...
I took Larium when on a trip to climb Kilimanjaro in 2001. It had no ill effects but the rep giving the briefing before the first day was quite emphatic that we should not take Larium whilst at altitude as he had seen some people being badly affected and exhibit weird behaviour.
I will add my name to the list of people who have found themselves having extremely disturbing reactions that have some connection with taking Larium. It is however curious that the literature I read around the time and after the event (A trip to Malawi about 20 years ago) did observe that the negative reactions reported by many Europeans was far higher by percentage than the negative reactions reported by North Americans.
This apparent anomaly was not effectively explained but there was some suggestion that many users were visiting severe third world conditions for the first time and that this emotional shock was considerably exacerbated by the chemical nature of the drug.
I certainly wouldn't claim to have ever been one of the worlds outstanding optimists and I was under some personal duress at the time of the trip but the depth of depression (I'm using that word as a shortcut to describe the effect) I experienced was quite severe enough for me to easily relate to the experience of this poor girl upon which this thread is based.
It was also apparent at the time that I was not alone in having such a negative reaction to the drug, the circumstances or both.
As it happened, I stopped taking the pills (taken than as a once a week tablet while there and for a couple of weeks before and then after the period of exposure) prematurely and soon after upon my eventual return to Australia, ended up coming very close to death being very reluctant to acknowledge that the un-wellness I was experiencing which turned out to be fulciparum malaria!
Needless to say, though the whole affair was a hugely difficult and disturbing experience, I have long since reflected back upon it with considerable pleasure and appreciation. There were some very bright moments within the darkness.
But I also do consider myself somewhat lucky to have survived...
This apparent anomaly was not effectively explained but there was some suggestion that many users were visiting severe third world conditions for the first time and that this emotional shock was considerably exacerbated by the chemical nature of the drug.
I certainly wouldn't claim to have ever been one of the worlds outstanding optimists and I was under some personal duress at the time of the trip but the depth of depression (I'm using that word as a shortcut to describe the effect) I experienced was quite severe enough for me to easily relate to the experience of this poor girl upon which this thread is based.
It was also apparent at the time that I was not alone in having such a negative reaction to the drug, the circumstances or both.
As it happened, I stopped taking the pills (taken than as a once a week tablet while there and for a couple of weeks before and then after the period of exposure) prematurely and soon after upon my eventual return to Australia, ended up coming very close to death being very reluctant to acknowledge that the un-wellness I was experiencing which turned out to be fulciparum malaria!
Needless to say, though the whole affair was a hugely difficult and disturbing experience, I have long since reflected back upon it with considerable pleasure and appreciation. There were some very bright moments within the darkness.
But I also do consider myself somewhat lucky to have survived...
A big night out in Cape Town and we missed a dose of the Larium pills, so we did a double dose just before the flight to Malawi - never took another pill.
Kept a supply of Artenam soon after. Never needed it but one guy did, and it worked very well.
